Can anyone assist me with information on the attached shown Triple Lock? The caliber is said to be .455 Webley and it claims it to be a Target variant. Is there any chance to determine its production year? Is there anything else I should know about it? Thanks!
.455 Webley Triple Lock
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Your revolver is indeed a .455 Webley Target Model, and it dates to between 1907 and mid 1910 due to the concave non medallion stocks installed on it, which were discontinued in mid 1910. A factory letter will give you the exact ship date which may be even a few years later. The rear Target sight is of the type more commonly shipped to the British market, likely for use at Bisley, and the British proofmarks are indicative of shipment to the UK. My guess is this shipped to Chas Osbourne & Son in Birmingham.
Welcome to the Forum, Promo.
Model19man
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That is a beauty. Thanks for sharing.
Wow, 7-1/2” barrel target model! Very nice!
How common are 455s in the early (non UK) TLs?
I bought one of these a little while back except it was from Canada. NOT! I talked to the seller on the phone on a Saturday worked out a verbal deal and someone bought it from the online store before Monday. Just my luck .LOL Still looking for another one. Congrats!
Thanks for this information - as well as thanks to your other thread with a great summary on models I found here: Smith & Wesson Hand Ejector First Model (Triple Lock) Revolver A Comparative Rarity
I'm not fully sure whether according to your different models over there this particular revolver would qualify as "Target Model .455 Webley", or if it is one of the below mentioned "Bisley Target Model" variants, that are described to have a fixed front sight and adjustable rear sight only? The showed revolver is different in its rear sight to what I could find elsewhere, so would this make it a Bisley Target Model in your opinion? Or would anyone have a Bisley Target Model for comparison?
Edit: after some search I found this to be described an unfinished Bisley TL which as identical sights -> Experimental Smith & Wesson First Model 455 “Bisley” Hand Ejector Revolver
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Welcome! Cool gun and it definitely has the period correct Target front sight.
It may be an original factory gun, or a modified one. Only a letter of authenticity from the S & W Historical Foundation will confirm this:
Letters – Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation
Although 7 1/2" Triple Locks are scarce, the difference in value between a factory and aftermarket Target gun could easily be 1-200% or more.
It may be an original factory gun, or a modified one. Only a letter of authenticity from the S & W Historical Foundation will confirm this:
Letters – Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation
Although 7 1/2" Triple Locks are scarce, the difference in value between a factory and aftermarket Target gun could easily be 1-200% or more.
Your front sight is not adjustable, do I suppose it is fixed, but adjustable front sights are only seen on rifles, as far as I know. I’ve never seen one on a revolver, although I suppose it’s possible. But, also, your revolver has the front blade that is pinned in place, and it can be “adjusted” in that the blade could be removed and replaced with another, if desired, unlike the non target model variations which contain a blade integral with the barrel.
I have seen a few others like yours with the atypical rear sight. I believe it to be factory, as the half Target Model revolvers are unusual (fixed front and Target rear sight or pinned front and standard rear sight). The others I’ve seen like yours I believe are, or had been, in Europe or the United Kingdom, so I believe this was for competition at Bisley. Again, I believe it’s factory work for Bisley, but it’s certainly possible these were ordered as a half Target Model and the millwork and installation of the rear sight was installed at or near Bisley.
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Is this gun proofed? I see some splotches in the flutes that may be proof marks, or they may just be corrosion. There are no proofs on the frame.
Promo, is it proofed?
Second of three picture sets. Note all matching number 4086 everywhere - except the crane has 5451, as well as the frame when cylinder is out (whereas the frame has the matching number 4086 again on bottom). Was the 5451 possibly only an internal pairing number/factory mismatch during assembly?
Attachments
Last set of pictures. Also took off the grips to picture the frame under it. No markings on the inside of the grips.
Yes, the Revolver has English firing proof stamps on it. Seems they stamped the cylinder for every single round.
Edit, to have it pointed out too - note the finely checkered trigger!
Yes, the Revolver has English firing proof stamps on it. Seems they stamped the cylinder for every single round.
Edit, to have it pointed out too - note the finely checkered trigger!
Attachments
Colt used some.
That sir, is one Beautiful Gun! I'm not that familiar with guns this early Pre-1910 But somehow the sight channel looks different. While a rounded top strap frame, that channel is more of a V cut as opposed to a U channel. Does that make sense to any other members more versed in the early round top frames?
Regardless it is one spectacular gun in the not often seen 7 1/2" barrel & .455 Webley chambering, in what appears to original finish, original stock grips & possible semi-target configuration. Nice Find and Thank You for sharing with us. Very intriguing gun indeed.
Regardless it is one spectacular gun in the not often seen 7 1/2" barrel & .455 Webley chambering, in what appears to original finish, original stock grips & possible semi-target configuration. Nice Find and Thank You for sharing with us. Very intriguing gun indeed.
The 455 Mark II Hand Ejector, 1st Model was made in 1914-1915 in serial number range 1 - 5,000. This model was designed to shoot 455 Webley Mk II ammo. There were a handful of this model sold on the commercial market, but the majority went to England. Calibers for the Webley revolver were quite confusing, with the early calibers including 476 Eley, 476 Enfield MKIII, 455 Colt, 455 Revolver MKI, 450 Revolver, 450 Short, 450 Adams and the 450 Colt. All of these calibers were said to fire in Webley revolvers, but the shorter chambers of the S&W 455 revolvers allowed only a few to work. Military ammunition continued to change with the Mark VI being the last I have seen used in WWII.
It almost certainly did not leave the factory as a target revolver, but rather as a standard military service revolver. The barrel length was 6 1/2" so appears that barrel was changed and a fixed "target sight" was added post-factory. Look inside the ejector rod slot for a serial number??
It almost certainly did not leave the factory as a target revolver, but rather as a standard military service revolver. The barrel length was 6 1/2" so appears that barrel was changed and a fixed "target sight" was added post-factory. Look inside the ejector rod slot for a serial number??
.. I was just looking again at the Amoskeag Auction "Triple Lock Bisley" again -> Experimental Smith & Wesson First Model 455 “Bisley” Hand Ejector Revolver
The Revolver I have here with me (at this stage: I'm located in EUROPE!) has EXACTLY the same front sight, the same rear sight, the very same finely checkered trigger - and the Amoskeag Auction revolver which is in the white and unfinished (factory leftover sample?) has assembly number 5216, whereas the Revolver I have has assembly number 5451, so very close to each other. They almost look like twins.
Could it just be that this is a factory build for Bisley, one of the factory made Bisley Match? Would a Letter of the Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation be able to confirm/deny this?
The Revolver I have here with me (at this stage: I'm located in EUROPE!) has EXACTLY the same front sight, the same rear sight, the very same finely checkered trigger - and the Amoskeag Auction revolver which is in the white and unfinished (factory leftover sample?) has assembly number 5216, whereas the Revolver I have has assembly number 5451, so very close to each other. They almost look like twins.
Could it just be that this is a factory build for Bisley, one of the factory made Bisley Match? Would a Letter of the Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation be able to confirm/deny this?
Welcome to the Forum, Promo! You have a very nice .455 TL Target model. It's a very desirable and valuable revolver, and probably very few were made in that configuration. There are lots of TL fans here on the Forum, and there should be some more info coming your way from our experts. A letter from S&W would probably help solve the mystery of your fine revolver.
I have seen a total of three of these revolvers with the same configuration, the OPs, a link to that Amoskeag Auction revolver, and a third one that sold at auction a few years ago. The front sight is factory, the checkering is factory in all probability. The rear sight could be factory or milled by the same individual at or near Bisley, England.
These revolvers all shipped in semi Target configuration at the very least. What makes it difficult to know for sure is that one can see the rear sight is simply fitted to a standard model frame with a simple channel for the rear sight. The simplicity of the work lends itself to being done anywhere. The Target Model revolver that is the most common variation we are familiar with has a channel milled along the length of the frame as well as milling perpendicular to the frame for precise fitting of the rear sight—and that work is far more complex.
These revolvers all shipped in semi Target configuration at the very least. What makes it difficult to know for sure is that one can see the rear sight is simply fitted to a standard model frame with a simple channel for the rear sight. The simplicity of the work lends itself to being done anywhere. The Target Model revolver that is the most common variation we are familiar with has a channel milled along the length of the frame as well as milling perpendicular to the frame for precise fitting of the rear sight—and that work is far more complex.
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