Can't we just ENFORCE the law?!?

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I get periodic emails from the BATFE highlighting their prosecution of firearms violations. Basically, their press releases showing what a GREAT job they are doing to try to make us all safer by locking up people violating the gun laws and regulations.

I got one today and the second item in the list caught my eye. Here is a link to the story
Middle District of Florida | Armed Career Criminal Sentenced To 15 Years For Possessing Ammunition As A Convicted Felon | United States Department of Justice

Here are the first wo paragraphs of the press release
Tampa, Florida – U.S. District Judge Steven D. Merryday today sentenced Leon Williams (35, Clearwater) to 15 years in federal prison for possession of ammunition by a convicted felon under the Armed Career Criminal Act. The court also ordered Williams to forfeit a Taurus firearm, a Sig Sauer firearm, and assorted rounds of ammunition, which were possessed in connection with the offense. Williams pleaded guilty on July 25, 2024.

According to court documents, on January 3, 2024, officers from the Clearwater Police Department executed a search warrant at a residence in Clearwater where Williams resided with his co-defendant, Robert Pugh. The search warrant was obtained after a series of controlled purchases of cocaine from Williams. During the search, two loaded firearms – a Taurus handgun and a Sig Sauer handgun – were found in the residence. Approximately 60 grams of marijuana and 70 grams of cocaine were also found inside, along with digital scales and other paraphernalia for drug distribution. Additional rounds of ammunition were also found in Williams’ bedroom. Williams admitted to ownership of the ammunition found in his bedroom and DNA evidence was later obtained connecting Williams to the Sig Sauer handgun...

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?

Here we have a career criminal already convicted of multiple felonies, caught red handed in possession of not one, but TWO handguns, and they only prosecute him for being in possession of the ammunition?!?

How about prosecuting and putting the guy away for possession of the TWO GUNS? Maybe they could put him away for more than just 15 years - a sentence which may see him back on the street again in less than 10 years.

The sad thing is that this is supposed to be an example of one of the BATFE's prosecutorial "success stories".

Holy COW! Is it any wonder crime is on the rise.
 
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Nothing surprises me any more on cases like this. A perp was arrested in VA for straw purchasing guns for felons 6 different times. His case was plea bargained down to only one charge which he pleaded guilty to and was sentenced to less than a year.
 
Federal LE can only do what the AUSAs will do. I have prepped cases for feds with all sorts of criminality; the agents were inclined, but the AUSAs declined. To me, generally, the agents at ATF who do criminal cases are ok; it is the regulatory side that presents a real problem to most of us.
 
We can't just kill 'em, the Fed's won't/can't prosecute all the cases, the courts are backlogged and Americans won't pay to lock all the bad guys up.

I'm guessing this was a plea deal...

^This. Many democracies have found that they lack the funds to enforce their laws as written or prosecute offenders in a reasonable time. The UK is in a similar hole with a totally backed up court system.
 
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Probably a plea deal coupled with sentencing guidelines.

They list a bunch of potential crimes involved but the Feds generally don't take a case unless it is solid.

The stuff plead to was probably solid. Other stuff, who knows, but guessing not so much.

So, I can get you 15 for the solid one why take a chance of losing.

And it used to be no good time in Fed system and you served what you got. I am not sure that is still the case.
 
Probably a plea deal coupled with sentencing guidelines.

They list a bunch of potential crimes involved but the Feds generally don't take a case unless it is solid.

The stuff plead to was probably solid. Other stuff, who knows, but guessing not so much.

So, I can get you 15 for the solid one why take a chance of losing.

And it used to be no good time in Fed system and you served what you got. I am not sure that is still the case.
I don't see why they can't bring charges for BOTH crimes - possession of the gun AND the ammo. People get prosecuted on multiple counts all the time...

I'm not blaming the BATFE - they did their job. I just find it ironic that they are publishing this as a success story when this REPEAT offender should be going away for a lot more than 15 years.
 
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You have a fundamental misunderstanding of federal sentencing laws. The penalties are the same. He got 15 years for being an Armed Career Criminal. He was gonna get 15 years for one gun, two guns, one bullet, 100 bullets, whatever. The US Attorney apparently has a sense of humor. I once dealt with a ACC who pleaded guilty to possession of one round of ammunition, amongst the other counts that were dismissed. He got 15 years, and he would have gotten 15 years regardless.

I get periodic emails from the BATFE highlighting their prosecution of firearms violations. Basically, their press releases showing what a GREAT job they are doing to try to make us all safer by locking up people violating the gun laws and regulations.

I got one today and the second item in the list caught my eye. Here is a link to the story
Middle District of Florida | Armed Career Criminal Sentenced To 15 Years For Possessing Ammunition As A Convicted Felon | United States Department of Justice

Here are the first wo paragraphs of the press release


WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?

Here we have a career criminal already convicted of multiple felonies, caught red handed in possession of not one, but TWO handguns, and they only prosecute him for being in possession of the ammunition?!?

How about prosecuting and putting the guy away for possession of the TWO GUNS? Maybe they could put him away for more than just 15 years - a sentence which may see him back on the street again in less than 10 years.

The sad thing is that this is supposed to be an example of one of the BATFE's prosecutorial "success stories".

Holy COW! Is it any wonder crime is on the rise.
 
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of federal sentencing laws. The penalties are the same. He got 15 years for being an Armed Career Criminal. He was gonna get 15 years for one gun, two guns, one bullet, 100 bullets, whatever. The US Attorney apparently has a sense of humor. I once dealt with a ACC who pleaded guilty to possession of one round of ammunition, amongst the other counts that were dismissed. He got 15 years, and he would have gotten 15 years regardless.
What about conviction on multiple counts? Getting charged and convicted on possession of the ammo, AND for possession of the guns as separate charges would result in time for each, correct? Could the judge NOT then make the sentences consecutive, vs. concurrent?

Since you have some expertise in this area, is 15 years the minimum sentence - or is it the maximum - or does it fall somewhere in between - for these charges?

Assuming that they really do hand out the same 15 year sentence for 1 round of ammo OR for possession of a gun is correct, it is also incredibly stupid.

Obviously, loaded gun in a criminal's hands is orders of magnitude more dangerous than a round of ammo. Making them equivalent crimes is beyond ridiculous.
 
15 years is the minimum sentence. The maximum is life. Multiple counts of substantially the same harm (as we have in this case) are grouped together for sentencing purposes to arrive at a single guideline sentencing range. The Judge could make the counts consecutive, but that is very rare, generally when the guideline range is in excess of the statutory maximum for the counts, which is not the case here. And in reality, what is the convict going to learn in 30 years that he isn't going to learn in 15 . . . ?

Edit: As I once heard a federal judge tell a defendant acting as his own attorney, this isn't law school. It is what it is . . .

What about conviction on multiple counts? Getting charged and convicted on possession of the ammo, AND for possession of the guns as separate charges would result in time for each, correct? Could the judge NOT then make the sentences consecutive, vs. concurrent?

Since you have some expertise in this area, is 15 years the minimum sentence - or is it the maximum - or does it fall somewhere in between - for these charges?

Assuming that they really do hand out the same 15 year sentence for 1 round of ammo OR for possession of a gun is correct, it is also incredibly stupid.

Obviously, loaded gun in a criminal's hands is orders of magnitude more dangerous than a round of ammo. Making them equivalent crimes is beyond ridiculous.
 
Assuming that they really do hand out the same 15 year sentence for 1 round of ammo OR for possession of a gun is correct, it is also incredibly stupid.

It is absolutely the same penalty, and I have seen 15 year sentences imposed for either . . .

Edit: But in today's internet expert Google School of Law world, I don't expect you to believe it . . .

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you . . .
 
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OK, so a guy with multiple felonies under his belt gets the minimum sentence - because anything more wouldn't "teach him" any more of a lesson. Got it.

HOWEVER, I am of the opinion that in incarcerating criminals isn't about teaching them something as it is protecting the rest of us from their criminality.

But of course, you're so much smarter than me, I'm sure your view is the correct one...
 
Always easy to armchair quarterback, or in today’s parlance keyboard warrior these things. I would rather have them in the community working and paying taxes. Incarcerating people is incredibly expensive, and when it comes down to it, you can’t lock everyone up forever. But it’s nice to think you can . . .
OK, so a guy with multiple felonies under his belt gets the minimum sentence - because anything more wouldn't "teach him" any more of a lesson. Got it.

HOWEVER, I am of the opinion that in incarcerating criminals isn't about teaching them something as it is protecting the rest of us from their criminality.

But of course, you're so much smarter than me, I'm sure your view is the correct one...
 
. . . HOWEVER, I am of the opinion that in incarcerating criminals isn't about teaching them something as it is protecting the rest of us from their criminality. . .

If I read your link correctly, this fella didn’t endanger anyone. It was what we call in the industry a “status offense”. He was ineligible to possess firearms and ammunition and he was found to do so. Who, exactly, did he endanger?
 
If I read your link correctly, this fella didn’t endanger anyone. It was what we call in the industry a “status offense”. He was ineligible to possess firearms and ammunition and he was found to do so. Who, exactly, did he endanger?
Of course, you're right again.

He is just a drug dealer, with distribution-level quantities of drugs in his possession. 60 grams of pot (over 2 ounces) - which is still illegal in Florida, plus 70 grams of coke (roughly 2-1/2 ounces) - which is illegal EVERYWHERE. And, he was arrested because he was selling the coke to undercover BATFE agents. I mean, a drug dealer with firearms isn't a danger to anyone, right?

If that's who you want running loose in your community - rather than being behind bars - I don't want to live in your community. Could it be that this kind of permissive attitude towards criminal activity, and accepting the current status quo of how "the system works", could be contributing to the breakdown of our communities? That certainly seems like a reasonable possibility to me.

ANYWAY, back to the original point...

Why is this guy getting the minimum sentence for 1 charge for possessing ammo - instead of ALSO facing gun possession AND drug possession charges?

Muss really made my point with his explanation of "you are ignorant of how the SYSTEM works..." post. That's my point - the system isn't really "working". The article I posted a link to highlights the fact that THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN - and FWIW, I am NOT ignorant of that fact.

Dismissing the more serious charges and putting every repeat felon away for a MINIMUM amount of time is why lifelong criminals view our "justice" system as a revolving door. Because it is.

In the name of expediency, DA's pursue, and then judges go along with, plea deals that subject these miscreants to the bare-minimum consequences for their actions. And, of course, the criminal element KNOWS this. In fact, they are BANKING on it.

I believe that if criminals knew that their criminal activities would result in REAL, harsh consequences (not a few years in a prison setting that is actually an improvement over their current basic standard of living) then, eventually, there would be less crime to be prosecuted. People will commit more crimes when they believe that the potential rewards outweigh the consequences of getting caught and prosecuted. That is what is wrong with our current "system". The risks are less than the rewards. We need to increase the "risks" for criminal activities.

FWIW, I haven't seen any tax levies - or other proposed tax increases - that were earmarked to pay for incarceration of criminals, that have failed in my part of the country. But maybe I missed something.

The fact is that my state's legislature won't even propose something like that. They only want to increase funding for far-left causes like gun control. They aren't the least bit interested in actually controlling CRIMINAL activity. They are too busy pushing measures to defund police and hamstring LEOs in their attempts to apprehend criminals.

I think that most taxpayers would be in favor of tax increases - if the money was guaranteed to go towards promoting public safety by keeping criminals behind bars.

I know I would, and I've never seen a tax increase that I was in favor of. But, then, the Washington State legislature has never proposed increasing my taxes to keep criminals off the street. At least not in the 40 years I've lived here. Rest assured that THAT would be a tax increase I would support.

I was reading an article just last week about a bill under consideration in the US Congress to increase the number of Federal-level judges by about 25%. The whole point of that bill was to get more judges on the bench to reduce the HUGE backlog of cases. Unfortunately, the bill was stalled over fights about WHEN these new judges would be appointed. Why? Because it would affect WHO actually got to make the appointments.

So, increasing the number of Federal judges to preside over and clear out the existing backlog of cases is being held up over the issue of whether X number would be appointed by the current administration vs Y number being appointed by the new, incoming administration, and Z number being appointed under other future administrations. That is such a perfect illustration of the real problem.

We can't move forward because it would mean upsetting the entrenched status quo, and the whole process has become more about politics than justice.

The status quo of the administrative state can't be overturned fast enough IMO.
 
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I don't see why they can't bring charges for BOTH crimes - possession of the gun AND the ammo. People get prosecuted on multiple counts all the time...

I'm not blaming the BATFE - they did their job. I just find it ironic that they are publishing this as a success story when this REPEAT offender should be going away for a lot more than 15 years.
Even if they got convicted/pled to the gun charges and ammo charges they in all likelihood not gotten more than the 15 years. I believe that the 15 years is close to if not the max for the crime in any event. A lot easier to prosecute a guy for possession of ammo based on a couple of rounds (or a magazine full) in his pocket than trying to prove he knew the gun was under the passenger seat. Hell, 15 years is 15 years. Down here when I was doing this stuff daily, the DA didn't give a whiff what the guy plead to as long as he accepted "X" number of years. 15 years for "Aggravated fugabugga" works for him just as easily as 15 years for burglary.

Assuming the guy pled to a violation of 922(g) the max sentence is 10 years which means the guy got that plus enhancements. Maybe that was all they could easily prove-remember it's always been about moving the docket. There is absolutely NO WAY IN HELL the government can possibly ditch plea bargaining and just tee up and try to the death EVERYTHING that comes in. Not enough resources. Always been and forever shall be. Would think that what with all the LEO backgrounds on the board that this would be a well known, albeit begrudgingly accepted concept.
Let us start off 2025 with a refresher course on the rules:
#1 Life just isn't fair.
 
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