Why are people more cautious carrying a chambered bodyguard 2.0?

[Cheyenne WYO]

30+ years ago when Glock started selling his guns to police in the U.S. saying it used a "Safe-T-Action" that was safer than a DA revolver. Immediately followed a pandemic of ND's with cops shooting themselves, usually in a leg while trying to holster their new pistol. Finally the "NY" 12lb trigger was demanded and the ND's stopped. Striker fired pistols without manual safeties and light (<6lb) triggers require ALWAYS following safe handling rules. One mistake typically means you shoot yourself.

30+ years ago was a time of transition from the longer, heavier double action revolver trigger to the shorter, lighter semi-auto triggers. It was not uncommon for people to approach dangerous situations with their fingers on the triggers of double action revolvers. Many revolver holsters of the day did not even have their trigger guards covered. Transitions take time with people who are used to a totally different system. Some agencies went with the hybrid DA/SA model like the Beretta 92 to require the first trigger pull to be like the revolver but the Glock bandwagon started in the mid-80s and it ultimately became ubiquitous. Holster technology also had to evolve to avoid things like the over-the-top thumb break leather being narrower than the trigger guard and people had to learn to wear other clothing that would not get caught in there while reholstering. Over time things got worked out. Once everyone knew that it was imperative to keep their fingers off the trigger until they are ready to shoot, the Glock leg/butt situations dropped off. The NY and NY+ triggers were a New York solution that were overwhelming rejected by the private and public sectors. Why? Because it makes the gun harder to shoot than a revolver. Also, unless the average NYCer had a military background, I suspect that a lot of their people probably didn't come from a shooting background and didn't shoot all that much.

ALL GUNS require ALWAYS following safe handling rules, not just ones with 6 pound triggers. I disagree with the statement that "One mistake typically means you shoot yourself." For someone to get hurt at least two rules have to be broken.

Any person with the trigger discipline to carry a striker fired gun OWB or IWB has the discipline to carry in the pocket after a lot of practice with an unloaded gun. The gun and holster have to be compatible with each other and with the pocket. To me, that means that the "system" has to allow me to point the gun in a safe direction before I release the gun from the holster as part of the draw. That takes care of a Glock foot problem. I will add that I do not carry AIWB because I cannot meet my personal criteria using that method, and I don't like where the gun is pointed before I touch it and during the drawing process. In the big scheme of things, Striker gun foot or butt is not as serious at striker gun groin or femoral artery. In fact, I wouldn't even carry a revolver AIWB.

Too light of a trigger pull can be a safety issue
Too heavy of a trigger pull usually isn’t. The best advice

Maybe. I see people all the time who do not shoot a lot who can’t get off a string of accurate shots under even moderate pressure using a small revolver or DAO semi auto, much less than lethal force engagement stress. I have found it much easier to get them to shoot accurately under pressure while using a semi-auto with a striker trigger. So, a heavy trigger pull may provide a slight degree of safety if you never have to use it but a lower degree of safety when it really counts.

 

[GnarlsR2]

30+ years ago .... So, a heavy trigger pull may provide a slight degree of safety if you never have to use it but a lower degree of safety when it really counts.

I enjoy the history.

Great informative commentary.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

I'm starting to think a heavier trigger pull, a thinner trigger "safety dingus", a slide that is plumb(?) with the sights alligned, a different magazine follower/spring combo & a higher profiled safety lever are just about all it really takes to make the BG2... Uh... " Perfect"?

For pocket carry?

Cheers!

 

[bph9]

There is "no" safe striker fired pistol that does not have a manual safety. Seriously, I could write you pages of accidental shootings, some of which resulted in death from guns like the Glock that lacked a manual safety which resulted in either the trigger being snagged while holstering it or handling it or some toddler picking it up when it was left unattended in the home.

Most people are not even aware of the fact that the Glock trigger safety was designed to keep the gun from accidentally firing if it was dropped and the passive firing pin safety failed (which many Glocks did before they "recalled" them (upgraded) to a more positive design. The trigger safety "does not" prevent the gun from firing if the trigger is accidentally snagged while handling it or attempting to holster it.

Without a "positive" (stiff) manual safety the only safe way to carry a striker fired gun that is single action in operation is with the chamber empty, "period", no ifs, no ans, or no butts and no lame and totally ignorant excuses like "the best safety is between your ears" (famous last words before they bury you).

If this lame excuse had any validity at all there would never have been back up safeties on lawnmowers, or backup cameras and warning buzzers on automobiles or safety glass or anti-lock brakes etc, etc, etc.

If pistols came under the jurisdiction of the Federal Safety Commission striker fired pistols without manual safeties would never have been allowed on the market. Some countries ban the importation of the Glock without the Glock Factory manual safety being installed on them. Yes, there is such a manual factory installed safety from Glock but they have not made it available to the American Market as far as I know.

It's rather bizarre and unfortunate that a pistol like the Browning/Colt 1911 invented over 110 years ago is actually safer to carry than the majority of pistols on the market today (read that striker fired pistols without manual safeties).

I might add even FN decided to update their 1905 pocket .25 acp pistol that only had a grip safety to the model 1906 by simply adding a manual safety. Now that was about 120 years ago. To bad the gun industry today has forgotten about history.

One clarification: Before some no-it-all claims the Glock is not a single action pistol, to be clear, technically it is not, as its only 67% cocked but with its light single action "type" trigger pull of around 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 lbs its an accident waiting to happen and happen it does far, far, to often.

One Gun Writer from the old newspaper "Gun Week" some years ago claimed that someday someone who suffered an accident with a Glock would be smart enough to get a "gun savvy" lawyer who would take Glock to the cleaners in a lawsuit which would set the entire gun industry on its ear and result in one of the biggest pistol recalls in firearms history. I personally still do not rule this out eventually.

I had my own personal Glock 19 sent in and had installed a "factory approved" manual safety and would never have carried it otherwise if it had not been available. An accident can happen in the blink of an eye and to claim that "you personally " have never made a mistake in your life and never will simply proves you have no business even carrying a gun.

 

[kbm6893]

Light, striker fired guns aren't "unsafe", but they are "less safe". People make mistakes all the time. Thinking it not only "won't" be you, but even worse, "can't" be you, is foolish.

I have the original M&P Bodyguard 1.0 and it has a safety. I don't always use it, but I usually do. But the long trigger takes away any thought of me accidentally pulling the trigger. ALL of my other M&P pistols have a safety. I own Glocks, too. Good guns, but not for carry.

 

[GnarlsR2]

... Without a "positive" (stiff) manual safety the only safe way to carry a striker fired gun that is single action in operation is with the chamber empty, "period", no ifs, no ans, or no butts and no lame and totally ignorant excuses like "the best safety is between your ears" (famous last words before they bury you).

... An accident can happen in the blink of an eye and to claim that "you personally " have never made a mistake in your life and never will simply proves you have no business even carrying a gun.

I really wish these long winded posters would just get right to the point, say what they really feel, and not beat-around the bush.

 

[Cheyenne WYO]

If pistols came under the jurisdiction of the Federal Safety Commission striker fired pistols without manual safeties would never have been allowed on the market.

If firearms came under the jurisdiction of any federal safety commission, none of them would be allowed on the market unless they were totally incapable of being fired under any circumstances.

 

[LVSteve]

The light trigger on a light gun with a small grip is probably the best thing for accuracy. The big "but" is that you now have a very light trigger on a carry gun.

The OP's comments about finding a Glock trigger heavy make me think he got spoiled from the off by the first guns he got to shoot. My stepson took advice from his military buddy and got a 1911, but this has made him a bit of a trigger snob. He makes faces dry firing even a good striker gun like a Canik or CZ P-10.

I learned with a first model Steyr M9 with what I think is a 6-6.5 lb trigger, but very crisp.

 

[touchoneoff]

I have a number of pistols, without a manual safety, that I pocket carry all the time, and a couple have relatively lite triggers.

To me, if you have a proper pocket holster, you should not have any issues. JMHO

 

[GnarlsR2]

You don't have to have a real gun that doesn't fire....

7-Year-Old Suspended for Pointing Gun-Shaped Breakfast Pastry – NBC4 Washington

 

[STORMINORMAN]

What if the lil' rascal had chewed the poptart into the shape of a whanger and then bit the end off: probably be charged with a so-called "hate crime", huh...?

Cheers!

P.S. I guess any Continental Insurance Company patches would be verboten as well? What about an image of William Tell?

 

[davek42_43130]

I think The 2.0 is more than safe. If your NOT comfortable carrying it, Then DONT. I have 3 different pocket pistols. I have 0 issues carrying any of them Hot. I carry 24/7 365

 

[dsk]

Too light of a trigger pull can be a safety issue
Too heavy of a trigger pull usually isn’t. The best advice

That's why I prefer a manual safety on my carry guns. Once you learn to use it properly it doesn't matter how heavy or light the trigger pull is.

 

[dsk]

Regarding chambered vs empty chamber carry. The latter assumes that if you're suddenly attacked you'll have both hands free to rack the slide. It assumes your other hand or arm won't be busy blocking a fist or impact weapon, or that your assailant doesn't already have control of your arm. It also assumes you weren't knocked off balance or onto the ground.

Furthermore, it also assumes that when you rack the slide you'll do it in one deft move and not short-stroke it under stress or ride the slide forward, causing a misfeed.

Me, I always carry with a chambered round. People who think that's dangerous can choose not to stand near me if they object to it. I also wonder how they carry a revolver... with one chamber empty as well?

 

[JcMack]

I've carried several different 5-6 shot revolvers in my back pocket sans holsters for about 45 years. They are/were Centennial or bobbed hammer style. When it's cold I'll occasionally carry a 9mm single stack Shield with TS in a jacket pocket.
A LOT is said about carry guns and the choice of how to carry them. Around here we have an affliction of living bags of excrement from a large city about 25 miles away. Their approach is three to five of them all with large capacity autos jump a victim with no warning and if you're carrying your own gun or not you are screwed. Some of these slime bags now carry Glocks with the full auto switch. You better give up or you're dead.
The only use I can see for my carry gun is to intercede in an in process attack on someone else if the odds are acceptable. I do have 9mm DAO "high cap" that lives in my truck in case I get road raged.

 

[joeb427]

Not mandatory for me, but I like having a safety on a pocket gun with a round in the chamber. Though, I've pocket carried a G42 and LCP Max with one in the chamber without any real concern. All my pocket carries are in Alabama holsters.

 

[halfmoonclip]

NTS: No Trigger Safety

TS: Trigger Safety

Mine is a NTS.

Uhhhh, don't they all have trigger safeties?
Now manual safeties are another question.
Moon

 

[STORMINORMAN]

I believe the "T" is for T as in "THUMB"...?

Cheers!

 

[HalinAL]

I can answer that question-it’s because the trigger pull is so light. Too light for a pocket gun, in my opinion.
That’s why I ordered mine with the thumb safety. The safety was too hard to flip on and off for practical use when I first got it. But after switching it on and off repeatedly about 2,000 times while watching TV over several nights, it has finally loosened up enough to use while carrying.
If anybody ever comes up with a higher profiled replacement safety lever I will be at the head of the line to get one.

Smooth, I just have one comment. I think you either have all your carry guns with safeties or none of your carry guns with safeties. The only pistol I have with a safety is a 1911 and I don’t carry it at all. Glocks, Shields and my Bodyguard - none have a safety. I just think in a critical moment I would not want to be thinking “Does my weapon have a safety or does it not?” As long as my holster/pocket holster covers the trigger guard, I feel it’s as safe as any weapon I would carry. JMO

HalnAL

 

[agksimon]

Smooth, I just have one comment. I think you either have all your carry guns with safeties or none of your carry guns with safeties. The only pistol I have with a safety is a 1911 and I don’t carry it at all. Glocks, Shields and my Bodyguard - none have a safety. I just think in a critical moment I would not want to be thinking “Does my weapon have a safety or does it not?” As long as my holster/pocket holster covers the trigger guard, I feel it’s as safe as any weapon I would carry. JMO HalnAL

I've pocket carried for 25 years without a manual safety and never had a problem, but I do use a Kydex holster that completely covers the trigger guard.