Speer vs Buffalo Bore

[BlueLineNYPD]

Which would you recommend for self-defense in a Smith & Wesson 642 Airweight: Buffalo Bore 150-grain standard pressure wadcutters or Speer Gold Dot 135-grain +P Short Barrel? My main concern with the Gold Dots are expansion reliability and consistency (out of a snub) and creating a larger wound channel.
Thanks

 

[Dump1567]

I'm in the HP camp but just looking at the lack of penetration with expansion of the GD in Luckygunners ballistic test, I'd probably go with WC's.

.38 Special Ballistic Test Results

I've gone to the Federal Hydra-Shok Deep in .38 spl, .32 H&R/acp, & .380. They seem to give adequate penetration (12") & expansion in the Gel tests I've seen.

 

[L-2]

As with Post 2, I'd also check with the LuckyGunner (/labs) website for some ideas. I didn't see LuckyGunner testing the subject wadcutter brands, however.

For Post 1, I also checked the Lost River ammo website for wadcutter ammo but see New York is a state it won't ship to, among some other states. I've some .32 H&R Mag ammo from Lost River.

I'll use whatever ammo I have for my .38 Special revolvers and typically choose a name brand JHP. Another thing to consider is the reload (as the subject revolvers are typically only 5 rounds). With wadcutter ammo, I've found a speedloader may not be ideal as the wadcutter rounds are a bit harder to index all 5 into the cylinder. I've found a speedstrip easier to carry and to reload wadcutters.

For JHP, I had a good amount of Winchester 130gr. +P Ranger ammo on hand. My department prior to retiring, kept this ammo on hand for us-revolver-backup-gun shooters, although we could carry any ammo we'd want to for our "bugs". I'd also carry the old Winchester SilverTip ammo sometimes, but don't know how well it penetrates or if it's still available.

I suppose FMJ ammo is another possiblity. I remember an old "DocGKR" poster and ammo expert who used to recommend FMJ for debatably similar .380, choosing penetration and accuracy over its lack of reliable expansion.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Which would you recommend for self-defense in a Smith & Wesson 642 Airweight:

I recommend what you shoot best.

During my LEO career I knew several cops that were successful in shootings with snubnose revolvers. Half were with 125 and 130 grain JHPs and the other half with our original 158 grain LRN.

 

[K Harris]

If you are going with a wadcutter, it is not necessary to spend the money on the Buffalo Bore round. You get consistent penetration with a slower round. I use either Remington or Winchester, but there are many others. Buffalo Bore makes great ammunition, but their wadcutter is a good example of the law of diminishing returns. High Desert Cartridge makes both a DEWC and a HBWC at around 725 fps, and you can get 50 for what the Buffalo Bore will cost for 20. Much less recoil, same results.

 

[robertrwalsh]

Shot placement is criteria #1. Adequate penetration is criteria #2. Everything else is an almost academic #3. I would go with whatever you can shoot the best with. Expansion is not something you can count on. Its nice if you can get it, but don't bet your life on it happening, especially with a snub nose handgun.

 

[BlueLineNYPD]

I recommend what you shoot best.

During my LEO career I knew several cops that were successful in shootings with snubnose revolvers. Half were with 125 and 130 grain JHPs and the other half with our original 158 grain LRN.

Thanks for your response. Without a doubt, shot placement takes priority over everything else.

 

[BlueLineNYPD]

If you are going with a wadcutter, it is not necessary to spend the money on the Buffalo Bore round. You get consistent penetration with a slower round. I use either Remington or Winchester, but there are many others. Buffalo Bore makes great ammunition, but their wadcutter is a good example of the law of diminishing returns. High Desert Cartridge makes both a DEWC and a HBWC at around 725 fps, and you can get 50 for what the Buffalo Bore will cost for 20. Much less recoil, same results.

I also just bought a few boxes of Georgia Arms 148 grain wadcutters. Haven’t shot them yet. But Buffalo Bore is known for deep penetration and basically destroying anything that comes into its path for the most part.

 

[BlueLineNYPD]

If you are going with a wadcutter, it is not necessary to spend the money on the Buffalo Bore round. You get consistent penetration with a slower round. I use either Remington or Winchester, but there are many others. Buffalo Bore makes great ammunition, but their wadcutter is a good example of the law of diminishing returns. High Desert Cartridge makes both a DEWC and a HBWC at around 725 fps, and you can get 50 for what the Buffalo Bore will cost for 20. Much less recoil, same results.

Thanks.

Shot placement is criteria #1. Adequate penetration is criteria #2. Everything else is an almost academic #3. I would go with whatever you can shoot the best with. Expansion is not something you can count on. It’s nice if you can get it, but don't bet your life on it happening, especially with a snub nose handgun.

Thanks. Shot placement definitely takes priority.

 

[BlueLineNYPD]

As with Post 2, I'd also check with the LuckyGunner (/labs) website for some ideas. I didn't see LuckyGunner testing the subject wadcutter brands, however.

For Post 1, I also checked the Lost River ammo website for wadcutter ammo but see New York is a state it won't ship to, among some other states. I've some .32 H&R Mag ammo from Lost River.

I'll use whatever ammo I have for my .38 Special revolvers and typically choose a name brand JHP. Another thing to consider is the reload (as the subject revolvers are typically only 5 rounds). With wadcutter ammo, I've found a speedloader may not be ideal as the wadcutter rounds are a bit harder to index all 5 into the cylinder. I've found a speedstrip easier to carry and to reload wadcutters.

For JHP, I had a good amount of Winchester 130gr. +P Ranger ammo on hand. My department prior to retiring, kept this ammo on hand for us-revolver-backup-gun shooters, although we could carry any ammo we'd want to for our "bugs". I'd also carry the old Winchester SilverTip ammo sometimes, but don't know how well it penetrates or if it's still available.

I suppose FMJ ammo is another possiblity. I remember an old "DocGKR" poster and ammo expert who used to recommend FMJ for debatably similar .380, choosing penetration and accuracy over its lack of reliable expansion.

I’ve been carrying Speer Gold Dots in both my semi autos and revolvers for years. They were department issued, and I’ve always stuck with them but then I started hearing a few stories about expansion reliability out of a snub nose. I’ve heard nothing but great things about Buffalo Boar as far as penetration and destruction of basically anything that comes in its way, although expansion isn’t a concern with wadcutters.

 

[BabaBlueJay]

SGT Rock is 100% right. The other two were right to point to the wonderful work done by Lucky Gunner on the matter, their testing is the most thorough out there along with Tools&Targets on YouTube.

The only tiny bit I would add to the wonderful advice you have already received is subjective and based on my limited experience/testing. When I owned a 38 special snub, I found that MOST (not all, but MOST) hollows did not offer consistent enough expansion for me to feel comfortable with any of the brands/grain weights I could get my hands on. I really wanted to try the Federal 130g micro HST based on the incredible results Lucky Gunner got with them, unfortunately they were unobtanium the entire time I owned my Model 36. For that reason I eventually settled on the fiocchi wadcutters (I believe 145g) because they were avaliable and my gun was not rated for +P. Now the only Smith I own is my 686-3 snub which is my grail gun and even with 357 magnum and a 2.5¨ barrel I have found some ammo still does not give great expansion, so I imagine even with +P and fast burning powder of short barrel ammo, you would be hard-pressed to find many 38 +P rounds out there that will accomplish the three priorities of defensive ammo IMO:

1. Reliable
2. Accurate
3. Available

The more experience I get, the more I think a majority of ammo is marketing and our doubts get the best of us. The reality is that if you shoot whatever you choose well as SGT Rock said, most ammo will do just fine. I think regular wadcutters would work fine, and buffalo bore is a great company, so if you want those and shoot them well, go with what you trust!

 

[BlueLineNYPD]

I'm in the HP camp but just looking at the lack of penetration with expansion of the GD in Luckygunners ballistic test, I'd probably go with WC's.

.38 Special Ballistic Test Results

I've gone to the Federal Hydra-Shok Deep in .38 spl, .32 H&R/acp, & .380. They seem to give adequate penetration (12") & expansion in the Gel tests I've seen.

Yes, thank you. I’ve seen that video as well. That’s why I’m starting to overthink Speer Gold Dots in a snub. I use Speer GD 124gr +P in my Glock 19 and Speer GD 124gr +P short barrel in my Glock 43X.

 

[BlueLineNYPD]

SGT Rock is 100% right. The other two were right to point to the wonderful work done by Lucky Gunner on the matter, their testing is the most thorough out there along with Tools&Targets on YouTube.

The only tiny bit I would add to the wonderful advice you have already received is subjective and based on my limited experience/testing. When I owned a 38 special snub, I found that MOST (not all, but MOST) hollows did not offer consistent enough expansion for me to feel comfortable with any of the brands/grain weights I could get my hands on. I really wanted to try the Federal 130g micro HST based on the incredible results Lucky Gunner got with them, unfortunately they were unobtanium the entire time I owned my Model 36. For that reason I eventually settled on the fiocchi wadcutters (I believe 145g) because they were avaliable and my gun was not rated for +P. Now the only Smith I own is my 686-3 snub which is my grail gun and even with 357 magnum and a 2.5¨ barrel I have found some ammo still does not give great expansion, so I imagine even with +P and fast burning powder of short barrel ammo, you would be hard-pressed to find many 38 +P rounds out there that will accomplish the three priorities of defensive ammo IMO:

1. Reliable
2. Accurate
3. Available

The more experience I get, the more I think a majority of ammo is marketing and our doubts get the best of us. The reality is that if you shoot whatever you choose well as SGT Rock said, most ammo will do just fine. I think regular wadcutters would work fine, and buffalo bore is a great company, so if you want those and shoot them well, go with what you trust!

Thanks so much for your input. I agree with the 148gr Wadcutters and feel even more comfortable with the Buffalo Bore 150gr.

 

[BabaBlueJay]

If you have tons of experience with the gold dots in law enforcement, I say go with what you know. Yeah, the expansion might be less than ideal, but over-penetration is far less of a worry than misses. If I shot gold dots my whole career, I would use those even if the expansion is not ideal. Try both, and use what you shoot best, but I would bet you shoot the gold dots best because that is what you have experience with.

 

[chase45]

My 642 gets wadcutters. I shoot that gun very poorly with anything heavy. The poi gets real high for me on heavy ammo. It’s a 7 yard gun in my hands

My 640 pro on the other hand I can shoot heavy loaded 38s and stretch that thing to 50.

 

[old bear]

Which would you recommend for self-defense in a Smith & Wesson 642 Airweight: Buffalo Bore 150-grain standard pressure wadcutters or Speer Gold Dot 135-grain +P Short Barrel? My main concern with the Gold Dots are expansion reliability and consistency (out of a snub) and creating a larger wound channel.
Thanks

Which would you recommend for self-defense in a Smith & Wesson 642 Airweight: Buffalo Bore 150-grain standard pressure wadcutters or Speer Gold Dot 135-grain +P Short Barrel? My main concern with the Gold Dots are expansion reliability and consistency (out of a snub) and creating a larger wound channel.
Thanks

 

[BlueLineNYPD]

If you have tons of experience with the gold dots in law enforcement, I say go with what you know. Yeah, the expansion might be less than ideal, but over-penetration is far less of a worry than misses. If I shot gold dots my whole career, I would use those even if the expansion is not ideal. Try both, and use what you shoot best, but I would bet you shoot the gold dots best because that is what you have experience with.

Thanks for your reply.
In the beginning of my career,
(If I remember correctly) the standard issue ammo was 158gr lead semi wadcutters. Then we switched to Federal Nyclad 158gr +P lead hollow points. Then in the mid 90s when we switched over to semi Auto‘s, we went to Speer Gold Dots.

 

[BrBa]

The 135 gr Gold Dot all day long.

 

[Borderboss]

Never, ever wadcutters. That same Lucky Gunner evaluation shows great results with the Federal 130gr HST Micro out of a 2" barrel. That seems like the ticket.

 

[Bald1]

On paper that 125 +P looks darn good. Expansion and penetration