Alternative to .38 Special Recoil

Don’t know if it has been mentioned in previous posts but since you have a 38 special handgun you can still buy 38 Short Colt and/or 38 Long Colt ammo that is less powerful than the 38 special. Also try Cowboy loads in 38 special.
 
Sgt. Buzzard said:
Having had to testify in Grand Jury's on police shootings, not only do I agree with the above, I keep my personal carry pure stock. No fancy grips, springs or action jobs. A range toy might have an aftermarket RDS and a performance trigger but I'm careful about my carry. I know I've just offended some here. That's OK, you do you. I like simple.
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I’m personally not offended, but do disagree, at least, partially. While I agree handloads probably shouldn’t be used for self defense, you can use them for training. I can reload ammo with lead bullets a lot cheaper than factory stuff. Plus, it’s easier on barrel life. Just my opinion.
 
brians356 said:
He didn't strike me as worried. Politeness is so rare now, it draws attention to itself.
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Being polite and kind does draw attention, especially from those who think that because you are being nice, you are a pushover. Over the years I have shrunk from 5'11" down to 5' 7" and there are a few that thought they could assert themselves, only to find that while a somewhat wizened older lady, I haven't forgotten how to put a 6 footer on the ground on his nose. Old Soldierettes don't die, we slowly shrink away. :LOL::LOL::LOL:
 
I’m a certified instructor and last year moved away from groups to exclusively private instruction (mostly women and/or first timers). I have witnessed firsthand how subjective felt recoil is. Some are recoil sensitive and opt for Sig P365-380 or G42. Others of similar size annd apparent hand strength opt for a Kimber Ultra or Shield 45ACP. Then there is everybody in between. Point is it’s personal. You just have to discover it for yourself. Because of this it’s difficult for one person to advise another.
 
Sgt. Buzzard said:
Having had to testify in Grand Jury's on police shootings, not only do I agree with the above, I keep my personal carry pure stock. No fancy grips, springs or action jobs. A range toy might have an aftermarket RDS and a performance trigger but I'm careful about my carry. I know I've just offended some here. That's OK, you do you. I like simple.
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The majority consensus among top-tier trainers like Massad et al is; in a SD shooting there will already be enough "issues" for your defense 'team' to challenge and overcome...not having to possibly deal with a modified platform, especially any negative type of cosmetic changes, read Punisher, is simply put, one less headache for your 'team' to deal with: learn to operate a "stock" platform and leave any non-standard mods( grips, sights) for your range-toys. Same with reloaded ammo...smart $ is on determining what brand/type is used by your local PD or SO and using the same if possible...that is much easier to defend than your own ammo.
 
Sgt. Buzzard said:
Having had to testify in Grand Jury's on police shootings, not only do I agree with the above, I keep my personal carry pure stock. No fancy grips, springs or action jobs. A range toy might have an aftermarket RDS and a performance trigger but I'm careful about my carry. I know I've just offended some here. That's OK, you do you. I like simple.
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What argument can the prosecutor use against you if you use handloads?

My Attorney: Doctor Jones, were the wounds from my client's homemade ammunition different from other bullet wounds you've seen?

Doctor: No.

My Attorney: Mr Smith, you're an ammunition and ballistics expert and you tested the ammunition my client made. What were your findings?

Mr Smith: I found that his ammunition was less powerful, but more consistent than what you can buy at the store. His quality control is much better than commercially made ammunition.

So, I think any attorney could make the prosecutor look like a fool for attempting to make an issue out of homemade ammo.

Deadly is deadly. If you can shoot someone with a 10mm loaded with factory ammo without anyone making an issue out of it, you can certainly use handloaded 32 ACP, 380 Auto, 9mm, 38 Special, 45 ACP, etc.

I'm pretty sure the argument is a transparent attempt to increase factory ammo sales. The manufacturers sponsor the famous internet personalities who argue against homemade ammunition. Or, they say, "I heard that ..." or "Prosecutors will try ..."

I carry handloads.
 
I think it could go either way. IIRC, the police officer who murdered Daniel Shriver in an Arizona hotel hallway had customized his rifle with stupid “you’re f***” inscriptions on the dust cover, etc…I think things like that could be used against someone in a case where their behaviors were in question. Likewise, loading up with exotic ammunition like incendiary/tracer/etc might get extra scrutiny, or some truly bizarre bullet shapes and practices like filling them with mercury or something.

I really wouldn’t want to defend an SD shooting done with some weird novelty thing, not so much for the hardware but because most of those are sold to idiots who think carving the Joker/Harlequin into the side of something is funny…or who think loading a Judge with birdshot “for a warning shot” and using it at the slightest provocation as such is “responsible”
 
Squib_Load said:
What argument can the prosecutor use against you if you use handloads?

My Attorney: Doctor Jones, were the wounds from my client's homemade ammunition different from other bullet wounds you've seen?

Doctor: No.

My Attorney: Mr Smith, you're an ammunition and ballistics expert and you tested the ammunition my client made. What were your findings?

Mr Smith: I found that his ammunition was less powerful, but more consistent than what you can buy at the store. His quality control is much better than commercially made ammunition.

So, I think any attorney could make the prosecutor look like a fool for attempting to make an issue out of homemade ammo.

Deadly is deadly. If you can shoot someone with a 10mm loaded with factory ammo without anyone making an issue out of it, you can certainly use handloaded 32 ACP, 380 Auto, 9mm, 38 Special, 45 ACP, etc.

I'm pretty sure the argument is a transparent attempt to increase factory ammo sales. The manufacturers sponsor the famous internet personalities who argue against homemade ammunition. Or, they say, "I heard that ..." or "Prosecutors will try ..."

I carry handloads.
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I use handloads to practice with my 357 solely because of the price. I do not carry hand loaded ammunition simply because it gives cause to add another point for the defense to have to deal with should I ever need to defend myself. While I practice with handloads the revolver is then sighted in with whatever factory defense load I decide to carry, although I have to admit that is not required at self defense distances. I use factory ammo in my 9mm handguns simply because I cannot load 9mm cheaper than I can buy it. I have found that that Sig P365 which prefers 124 gr, hollow points all the others shoot better with 147 gr hollow points. In any case, don't give the prosecution any more things to confuse a jury with because they probably know nothing about firearms or self defense anyway.
 
Anyone who thinks that the opposition in a legal case is going to be fair and honest is dreaming. It's a club and you are not in it....Judge, lawyers, law firms the whole thing. Preaching to an emotion driven jury who knows squat about firearms.

Regarding different weight projectiles: A J frame needs 158 to shoot to point of aim. Put in something else and you might wind up aiming at centermass and hitting a kneecap. Then you'll need a lawyer for sure..
 
Sgt. Buzzard said:
^^^ Good, I'm happy for you. Oh, BTW, just how many times have you testified in a Grand Jury or Superior Court?
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I do not profess to be an expert witness, and I try to stay out of any legal proceedings. Have I testified in court? Yes, several times, it was for the prosecution in a non firearm related issues. I can probably say that you would not want me testifying in court since my training and viewpoints are very conservative and differ from most of the members here.

In addition to basic rifle, pistol and muzzle loading, I teach concealed carry. Unlike other instructors, I require the people seeking a concealed carry permit to demonstrate proficiency with their chosen handgun and ammo. I also consider the applicant's attitude. Those with cocky know it all attitudes do not receive the state's required certificate of training from me. I do not to certify problems waiting to happen.
 
Sgt. Buzzard said:
Having had to testify in Grand Jury's on police shootings, not only do I agree with the above, I keep my personal carry pure stock. No fancy grips, springs or action jobs. A range toy might have an aftermarket RDS and a performance trigger but I'm careful about my carry. I know I've just offended some here. That's OK, you do you. I like simple.
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I believe it was Mas Ayoob who also wrote that in a defense shooting that is justified it is not the DA we have to worry about so much as “plaintiff's attorney for the family of the deceased” in a civil case for wrongful death. In such a civil trial in many places the standard of evidence is not "beyond a reasonable doubt" but simply the "preponderance of the evidence" and a guilty verdict can be a simple majority of the jury. Also the plaintiff's attorney can come up with all manner of outlandish ideas and it is not perjury but their "theory of the case" and if they convince seven jurors of that, then we lose every thing we own. So I also carry unmodified and pure stock.
 
Sgt. Buzzard said:
Having had to testify in Grand Jury's on police shootings, not only do I agree with the above, I keep my personal carry pure stock. No fancy grips, springs or action jobs. A range toy might have an aftermarket RDS and a performance trigger but I'm careful about my carry. I know I've just offended some here. That's OK, you do you. I like simple.
Click to expand...
As an attorney myself, I highly recommend this. If a jury sees a Punisher emblem, for example, on anything, they will most certainly view the person behind it with deep uncertainty. Same with aggressive roll marks, names, emblems, color jobs, etc.
 
Sgt. Buzzard said:
Having had to testify in Grand Jury's on police shootings, not only do I agree with the above, I keep my personal carry pure stock. No fancy grips, springs or action jobs. A range toy might have an aftermarket RDS and a performance trigger but I'm careful about my carry. I know I've just offended some here. That's OK, you do you. I like simple.
Click to expand...
Your wise, a prosocuter can make you look like a blood thirsty killer when you customize your gun. You should only use factory ammo for that reason too.
 
Ok. I don't want to start (or continue) a urination olympics here, I just want to inject a little reason.

Last I checked there has never been a court case that turned bad over the reload issue, but it makes sense to me to use factory stuff and that's what I do.

And I agree it is stupid to have skulls and doomsday crap adorning any of your guns.

Where I draw the line is the notion that fitting the gun to the shooter can generate some sort of legal liability.

Some folks here seem to insinuate that installing aftermarket grips to accommodate my 2xl mitts or taking the burrs off the internal parts to smooth the trigger pull is going to cause some sort of jeopardy.

The simple fact is that my if I expect my 75 Year old wife to operate a J frame revolver to protect herself (or me!) she simply cannot operate it with factory springs or gritty sloppy internal parts.

Maybe I am misreading the folks who say your CCW has to be box stock and totally unaltered right down to the finish and the low-bid factory grips to be legally safe.

I have been reading gun rags and shooting guns since 1962 so I am not easily swayed.

BUT.......I don't what the new shooters that populate this forum getting the notion that they can't make reasonable changes to accommodate hand size/strength or finish preference without exposing themselves to legal problems.

BTW.... I have had a case go before the State Supreme Court (and won) but I never testified there. Every other court downstream from that has had me on the witness stand multiple times. Even did a Army Court Martial once. So, yes I have that if it validates my thinking to someone.

Just sayn'
 
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