2" vs 3" .38/.357 revolvers

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I know that there will be a slight difference in velocity and muzzle energy. I know there's a difference in site radius, that I'm not sure makes much of a difference at defensive distances. My question is, what will a bullet shot out of a 3" revolver do to a human that it wouldn't do if it was shot out of a 2" revolver? Some people prefer 3" or 4" revolvers for EDC, but if the shot placement is exactly the same with a 2", 3", or 4" revolver, what difference, if any, will it make to a human target?
 
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No, the bullet would not do the same thing to a medium sized living target. Deer, pig, human, or any other similar sized animal. The closer the target, the more likely you might get similar results.

The biggest difference, once you go less than 3", is the ammunition you should use. Under 3" you lose enough velocity, for most commercial rounds, to lose reliable expansion of HP ammunition. If they do expand, or start to expand, they may not penetrate enough to hit vitals. For short barreled guns penetration matters more than expansion.

The concept is similar to the choosing of handgun ammunition to use to defend against, or hunt, larger animals like moose and big bears. You go with the non-expanding heavy rounds to guarantee penetration (as best as a handgun can). Expansion becomes an issue because it slows the bullet down and you may not penetrate to the vitals. So, you have to know when to value one trait over the other.

With handguns there will always be a tradeoff. You need to make your setup work with your gear for your purpose. I use one round to hunt with and for SD in my 3+" 357 revolvers, and a non-expanding round for my 2.25" SP101.

Even with the 3" guns, I know expansion may not occur, but the rounds I use should still penetrate more than enough to be lethal.

I base my choices after having seen the results of various rifle and handgun cartridges used on dozens of whitetail deer over the years. Seeing what actually happens in the field is an eye opener. The first thing I learned, is there are no guarantees as to what will happen. The second thing I learned is how to make the results relatively consistent.
 
I know that there will be a slight difference in velocity and muzzle energy. I know there's a difference in site radius, that I'm not sure makes much of a difference at defensive distances. My question is, what will a bullet shot out of a 3" revolver do to a human that it wouldn't do if it was shot out of a 2" revolver? Some people prefer 3" or 4" revolvers for EDC, but if the shot placement is exactly the same with a 2", 3", or 4" revolver, what difference, if any, will it make to a human target?
It sort of depends on the load and on the individual revolver (things like the flash gap, how worn were the tools when it was made, etc).

I have a 3" Python that shoots the same loads over the same chronograph on the same day faster than my 6" Python, likewise I have a 4" 629 that is faster than my 8 3/8" 29 - that is not normal but not all that uncommon.

But to the original question, I would expect a 3" gun of the same brand and model to be a little faster than a nominal 2". My 3" S&W M-36 is about 50 fps faster than my 1 7/8" M-36 with 158 gr. factory loads.

I don't much care about bullet expansion - especially since I will not go below 140 gr. in .38s or .357s and usually like 158 to 200 gr. bullets in .38, but all three big name brands of the "FBI load" fail to expand in my short gun (in several mediums) and one of them does expand a little from the 3", all of them deform in 4".

Still bullet testing is fraught with challenges. I worked a case as an expert witness where the victim was shot in the back with a Remington 125 gr. +P JHP. No bone was hit. The bullet traveled about 9-10" and did not expand - that load, if it doesn't expand will penetrate about 16-18" of 10% gel.

Then again, a 230 gr. FMJ will penetrate 32" of gel but it only exits the human body about half the time (in our county it has stayed in 100% of the time but we haven't had that many cases).

Just Ramblin'

Riposte
 
I’ve never had a 2 inch, but I’ve had three, 3s. So my opinion won’t count for much, but:

This is silly, but I don’t like the look of a 2. Anything can be over done, and a 2 inch revolver is one of those things. 3s are hard to shoot. It can. be done. It takes practice. But those 2s look impossible.

I also have a “fast” 3 inch Python that will shoot certain loads faster than my 6 inch 686. I can safely get a 158/1200 fps out of that Python. But then again, a 3 inch Python isn’t exactly a small gun.

Again, just my opinion, but I think the SIG P365 has made those small revolvers obsolete. It’s smaller, lighter, longer sight radius, better sights, good ballistics, easier to shoot well. And twice the payload. Probably cheaper, to boot.
 

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Guys like 3” guns. I get it. They just look right ! But I think the longer ejection rod has become a talking point that people just spit out. Kind of like model 19 forcing cone issues. It’s way over blown. I’ve never once shot a 2” anything and thought WOW this ejection rod is a real problem. It might even get me killed.
 
I will also give a nod to the longer ejector rod with a second bump for the extra sight radius.

It isn't much harder to conceal that extra inch of barrel, which doesn't weight much.

But, the situations where the extra velocity from that inch of barrel would have done the job when a 2" didn't are few and far between. That is like debating 110gr bullets vs 125 and 158.
 
Under the conditions you cite, likely no difference at all. And as Riposte1 indicates, longer barrels do not always produce higher velocity; sometimes just the opposite. I know this is counterintuitive, but I've chronographed for many years, and this is not unusual. I will say that at 3", the .357 cartridge really begins to pull away from he hottest .38+P and 9mm+P in the same barrel length..
 
My question is, what will a bullet shot out of a 3" revolver do to a human that it wouldn't do if it was shot out of a 2" revolver? Some people prefer 3" or 4" revolvers for EDC, but if the shot placement is exactly the same with a 2", 3", or 4" revolver, what difference, if any, will it make to a human target?
From my police experiences at point blank range (arm length) it doesn’t matter.
 
No, the bullet would not do the same thing to a medium sized living target. Deer, pig, human, or any other similar sized animal. The closer the target, the more likely you might get similar results.

The biggest difference, once you go less than 3", is the ammunition you should use. Under 3" you lose enough velocity, for most commercial rounds, to lose reliable expansion of HP ammunition. If they do expand, or start to expand, they may not penetrate enough to hit vitals. For short barreled guns penetration matters more than expansion.

The concept is similar to the choosing of handgun ammunition to use to defend against, or hunt, larger animals like moose and big bears. You go with the non-expanding heavy rounds to guarantee penetration (as best as a handgun can). Expansion becomes an issue because it slows the bullet down and you may not penetrate to the vitals. So, you have to know when to value one trait over the other.

With handguns there will always be a tradeoff. You need to make your setup work with your gear for your purpose. I use one round to hunt with and for SD in my 3+" 357 revolvers, and a non-expanding round for my 2.25" SP101.

Even with the 3" guns, I know expansion may not occur, but the rounds I use should still penetrate more than enough to be lethal.

I base my choices after having seen the results of various rifle and handgun cartridges used on dozens of whitetail deer over the years. Seeing what actually happens in the field is an eye opener. The first thing I learned, is there are no guarantees as to what will happen. The second thing I learned is how to make the results relatively consistent.
We're discussing self defense against humans targets at common self defense distances with EDC sized firearm. It's an entirely different conversation and variables when we get into hunting and defense against larger 4-legged predators. The overwhelming amount of data I've seen to suggest something different despite of some online forum logic. The Lucky Gunner test between 2" and 4" barrel, the plethora of ballistics videos on YouTube, etc. I've also haven't seenn or know of any data that shows a correlation between barrel lengths and effective incapacitation on humans. It seems that the choice of ammo and ammo design is most important when trying to achieve reliable expansion out of a barrel of any size than. Some bullets are designed to reliable expand and meet FBI specs out of short snubby barrels and some aren't. Federal 130 gr HST Micro is one of many examples that is.

In short, I just don't see any credible evidence to back your assertion that "most commercial rounds" in .38/.357 aren't expanding and/or penetrating enough to meet FBI standards. It appears to me that the expantion and penetration seems to be similar.
 
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The straw that broke the camel’s back was only a straw after all, so it makes the difference when or IF it does. Barrel length gives you more range and accuracy.
When the lawmen were on horseback it was normal to have a bbl of six inches. When they were in police cars, that long barrel bumped into the seat. Four inches was a better length.
The two inchers were for plainclothes and command, who despite TV dramas and movies to the contrary just don’t do gunfights very much.
Please correct me. I am not a cop, but I respect ‘em as much as they’ll let me.
BrianD
 
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