Short Barrel Shotgun

[biku324]

CONSIDER THIS:
My first shotgun was a used X-police, 870 top folder for Law enforcement stamped on stock, I liked it fine. I was uncomfortable about keeping it loaded around the house (which a house gun really ought to be) because of my young daughter & her friends visiting. Then I became aware of box magazine fed shotguns - which would make loading very fast, so I started looking into them. While doing so - I ran across one of the SAIGA 12-C Folding AK platform shotguns that were imported to sell to law enforcement agencies here & DIDN'T. I think they missed a good thing - BUT I DID NOT. I sold my 870 to help pay for my Saiga.
I have owned it for almost 20 years now & still love it. It is not something I use often, but I like knowing its there.
Made by IZMASH arsenal, Stamped for law enforcement use on the receiver, I have 8 & 12 round magazines for it.
It is very well made to be durable under all conditions & has never hiccuped. I was tempted to go shoot clay birds - NAH.
The only time I used it in anger was to cancel a large Snake, intent on biting me, when I tried to evict him from my property. I fired it, folded - from 6 feet away. There was only a smoking crater where it had been. I couldn't believe a big snake could be vaporized - at the time. I learned later - that the snake had been instantly blown onto my Roof, when Vultures started snacking there, & dropping snake chunks around my yard.
I feel lucky that I found & bought it. IMO a semi auto AK, 12 ga. with removable magazines is a very good idea.

Had you killed the snake from a bit further away, vultures would have cleaned the meat off and left you a shiny white snake skeleton. Here's a staged photo - the actual bones left in the wild aren't so neat.

 

[Mongo Safari]

The shotguns my department had when I joined in 1988 were Rem 870 Wingmasters, full butt stock, 20", with smooth bore and rifled sights. 2 3/4" only. They were long but worked fine on duty and training.

Around 94-95 we received Rem 870 Police Magnums, upgraded by Scattergun Technologies, 14" barrels with aperture Trijicon sights. Half had synthetic pistol grip butt stocks, and the others had ambidextrous thumbhole synthetic full butt stock. A few were outfitted with pistol grips. Funny, I didn't like the pistol grip gun, but I enjoy shoot lots of 44 Mag in Ruger a Redhawk and Bisley Blackhawk revolvers.

My home shotgun is an 870 Express Magnum, full wood stock, 20" smooth bore, rifle sights. OO Buck

 

[DRYHEAT]

My oldest NFA/Title II firearm: 12 ga. 8” Mossberg 500 AOW
Built by a SOT in WA in July 1989 for the princely sum of $300 – the $5 stamp took 13 months (August 1990) to get back from ATF. Over 3K rounds down the tube. So for its 28th birthday I decided to take it to Robar* for the NP3 treatment…
I now have a Mossberg Mini Marine! Great for repelling pirates… or any other varmints.

Under the laser/light mount is "SNAKE BAIT" as the original intended use was to take on our annual varmint hunting trips
to MT for rattlesnake elimination duty. Never used it for that.

 

[Capt29]

We carried 2 Ithacas in our A/C (Huey) in VN. For use when things got a little close. They were for the door gunners if the M60 was dry or inop (it happened). they were cut to about 14" by the BN armorer, and kept the stock full length. As mentioned, for serious use a shotgun without a stock is not very useful.
The guns seemed to be off the shelf, one had "Deerslayer" engraved on the receiver. They were parkerized and later we got a front sight put on each of them courtesy of a USAF armorer. The AF guys had some neat guns, S&W K frames with adjustable sights, Model 15s I think.
The only thing bad about the shotguns was the ammo, if carried in quanity, was heavy. 00 buck was issued and one of the guys scored some slugs somewhere. A 12 gauge slug applied to a small VC or NVA guy was very impressive.
Of course the M60 was the preferred weapon, but every now and then some BGs could get close in where the shotgun was useful. The early Hueys did not have the useful load of later models so weight was always afactor in regard to what we could loat out with.

 

[shocker]

I put a stock on my 12 GA Shockwave. It's more manageable for me that way, but recoil will still get my attention. The 20 GA Shockwave I can shoot well with the birdeye grip.

 

[h2ohhh]

Oh boy, yes! I carried an Ithaca 13" model 37 with open sights when in the NYPD Robbery Squad (Bronx Central Robbery. We went after heavily armed robbery teams, or so they told me...). That "sling" attached to the pump handle is to keep an overly enthusiastic officer from blowing his fingers/hand off should they become a tad too excited.

I carried slugs in the one I turned out with (in order to reach out and touch someone, should that have been necessary. Four slugs in the magazine, one stuck in the "sling" thingy.

Understand this, there is no advantage in having a shotgun without a butt-stock. Unless you can show me how you can reduce the distance from your elbow to your hand. Love that check-weld!

Oh, one final thing. The guy in the photo was much younger young me. Around 1980 or so.


View attachment 775274

We used the Ithaca model 37 with either 20" or 13" barrels, both with open sights and the 20" had a sling (what if you get into a tussle while holding you shotgun, where you gonna put the darn thing?!?) and the Ruger Mini-14 in .223. All good guns.

View attachment 775277

Rich

Rich, thank you for your service. Did you know Joe McKenna? He was a golf buddy of mine and a Lt. in Manhattan South Robbery Division during the same era.

 

[h2ohhh]

I set up an appointment yesterday with Print Scan to get my EFT digital fingerprints. Got them done today, and already received the file.

Now I need something to form 1. Already have 10 SBR's, but never had a shotgun. I have a ONG 870 and a 870 Wingmaster that was my dad's. The one he hunted with all my life was stolen, and he bought this one, but never used it. Do y'all think a 11.5" 870 would be cool? I'd like to keep the wood stock, but the massive recoil pad would have to be shortened.

Did a fast photoshop cut on it. Thoughts?

You can pick up a used 870 tactical 6+1in good condition for @$300

 

[CH4]

Or

Remington
Tac 14
Tac 13 - I like the look of the rib.

No paperwork. They must be less dangerous than an SBS

 

[Pat the Gunsmith]

Oh boy, yes! I carried an Ithaca 13" model 37 with open sights when in the NYPD Robbery Squad (Bronx Central Robbery. We went after heavily armed robbery teams, or so they told me...). That "sling" attached to the pump handle is to keep an overly enthusiastic officer from blowing his fingers/hand off should they become a tad too excited.

I carried slugs in the one I turned out with (in order to reach out and touch someone, should that have been necessary. Four slugs in the magazine, one stuck in the "sling" thingy.

Understand this, there is no advantage in having a shotgun without a butt-stock. Unless you can show me how you can reduce the distance from your elbow to your hand. Love that check-weld!

Oh, one final thing. The guy in the photo was much younger young me. Around 1980 or so.


View attachment 775274

We used the Ithaca model 37 with either 20" or 13" barrels, both with open sights and the 20" had a sling (what if you get into a tussle while holding you shotgun, where you gonna put the darn thing?!?) and the Ruger Mini-14 in .223. All good guns.

View attachment 775277

Rich

If you remember Alpine Arms on Ft. Hamilton Pkwy in Brooklyn, I was the gunsmith there with an unrestricted license.

 

[RebCop]

Oh boy, yes! I carried an Ithaca 13" model 37 with open sights when in the NYPD Robbery Squad (Bronx Central Robbery. We went after heavily armed robbery teams, or so they told me...). That "sling" attached to the pump handle is to keep an overly enthusiastic officer from blowing his fingers/hand off should they become a tad too excited.

I carried slugs in the one I turned out with (in order to reach out and touch someone, should that have been necessary. Four slugs in the magazine, one stuck in the "sling" thingy.

Understand this, there is no advantage in having a shotgun without a butt-stock. Unless you can show me how you can reduce the distance from your elbow to your hand. Love that check-weld!

Oh, one final thing. The guy in the photo was much younger young me. Around 1980 or so.


View attachment 775274

We used the Ithaca model 37 with either 20" or 13" barrels, both with open sights and the 20" had a sling (what if you get into a tussle while holding you shotgun, where you gonna put the darn thing?!?) and the Ruger Mini-14 in .223. All good guns.

View attachment 775277

Rich

I talked a lot with Jim Cirillo at IPSC matches in the 80's about his time on the stakeout unit. As a young cop I ate it up and he said that 10-12" M-1 carbines were popular also.

 

[dsf]

I'm not much into shotguns. I will admit that I'm not much into shotguns. I will admit that
I'm not much into shotguns. I will admit that I'm not much into shotguns. I will admit that



being in CA (for now) makes me want one of those 14" AOW things, but for now the below works for mr -being in CA (for now) makes me want one of those 14" AOW things, but for now the below works for me - being in CA (for now) makes me want one of those 14" AOW things, but for now the below works for me -

Stevens 12 Gauge with Ryenite stock and forend





Good enough for McQueen, good enough for me.

 

[ARgon]

20” High Standard Riot has hung by my bed for years. It’s a sweetheart.

 

[RichCapeCod]

Rich, thank you for your service. Did you know Joe McKenna? He was a golf buddy of mine and a Lt. in Manhattan South Robbery Division during the same era.

Hi. Sorry, don't recall Joe. Probably ships passing in the night thou.

Rich

 

[RichCapeCod]

If you remember Alpine Arms on Ft. Hamilton Pkwy in Brooklyn, I was the gunsmith there with an unrestricted license.

I do remember the name Alpine Arms. The few times I went into a NYC gun shop were the ones around the Police Academy (Edelman's???????).

Rich

 

[RichCapeCod]

I'm not much into shotguns. I will admit that I'm not much into shotguns. I will admit that
I'm not much into shotguns. I will admit that I'm not much into shotguns. I will admit that



being in CA (for now) makes me want one of those 14" AOW things, but for now the below works for mr -being in CA (for now) makes me want one of those 14" AOW things, but for now the below works for me - being in CA (for now) makes me want one of those 14" AOW things, but for now the below works for me -

Stevens 12 Gauge with Ryenite stock and forend

View attachment 775809



Good enough for McQueen, good enough for me.

View attachment 775810

That Stevens 311 is a very practical personal defense shotgun!

Rich

 

[BE Mike]

You can't put a full length stock on a Shockwave or a TAC14 without a stamp. They leave the factory as 'others' , (not AOW) , and if you put a stock on one it becomes an SBS. (designed to be fired from the shoulder, and under 18"bbl)
I'm not even sure that the ATF would let you stamp it, but somebody here will know.

I'm pretty sure that the OP is going the Short Barreled Shotgun route.

 

[Shrek Of The Arctic]

As a side note: At one point in time, several moons ago I wanted a Serbu. It looked cool, and I figured I could get it under a $5 AOW tax stamp. (As time moved on, I'm glad I didn't) The gun shop I was dealing with wouldn't even mess with AOW stamp and cited this as their reasoning: If I purchased a Serbu on an AOW, it must remain exactly as issued. same barrel, same grip, etc. but if I did a SBS, I'd be able to swap out barrels, stocks, etc. to my hearts content and stay legal.

If that's true, it seems that as long as the receiver is good, the OP can swap barrels and furniture as much as he likes without getting cross threaded with the feds.

I'm not an NFA scholar or anything, but...sounds plausible?

 

[RichCapeCod]

I have to put in my two cents in regard shotgun sights. Shotguns are NOT hand-grenades!! They must be aimed, except at virtually contact distance, in order to be assured a hit of your target. Let's try this. Many of the shotguns being shown here are intended for home defense. Fine. Great tool for the job. What is the maximum distance you think you'll ever use your home defense shotgun? Trick question, what's the longest unobstructed distance between any two points in your home will provide the answer. Bet you a large cup of coffee and a donut it's gonna be under 30 feet.

I'll wait. Get out the tape measure and go find out now.

OK, here are some targets I used to determine the spread of an open choke Ithaca 37, 5', 10', 7 yds/21', 10 yds/30':










Bottom line; ya gotta aim the darn weapon if you hope to hit anything.

When using the shotgun, focus on your front sight or front bead. Control your trigger. The pellets will go where the gun is aimed, not where you hope they will go!

Rich

 

[crasig]

I should add - that I decided a Shotgun would be overly destructive to fire in MY house (unless a crowd of invaders).
So - I've opted for my more controllable, 30 round, 9mm, Braced Stribog - with strong green laser - Not to wreck the place.
I doubt homeowners insurance covers owner caused damage.

 

[wood714]

As a side note: At one point in time, several moons ago I wanted a Serbu. It looked cool, and I figured I could get it under a $5 AOW tax stamp. (As time moved on, I'm glad I didn't) The gun shop I was dealing with wouldn't even mess with AOW stamp and cited this as their reasoning: If I purchased a Serbu on an AOW, it must remain exactly as issued. same barrel, same grip, etc. but if I did a SBS, I'd be able to swap out barrels, stocks, etc. to my hearts content and stay legal.

If that's true, it seems that as long as the receiver is good, the OP can swap barrels and furniture as much as he likes without getting cross threaded with the feds.

I'm not an NFA scholar or anything, but...sounds plausible?

You can change out anything you want. I could have a dozen different barrel lengths, and change out stocks every day, or put a pistol grip on it.

In the past I've heard all you have to do is be able to put it back in the condition that you listed on your form 1. I'm not sure that's even necessary now days.