Smith and Wesson Model 41 going 10-7

[chief38]

During my "I've sworn off Model 41's phase" I bought a couple of Ruger MKIV's and upgraded them with Volquartsen parts. While they were both pretty good shooters neither were similar in feel to the Model 41 by any stretch. When I bought my PC M-41 I sold off one of the MKIV's because I didn't need two of them. Today the remaining Ruger sits in the safe collecting dust. If I am of the mind to shoot a top notch .22 pistol in my meager collection I always take the Model 41. It is a much more rewarding pistol to shoot in all respects. The Ruger is a Ruger and my wife likes it which is good because she leaves my M-41 alone.

Rick H

If you are lucky enough to own a "good vintage " or more modern M41 there is no better! That said, the Ruger Volquartsen trigger combo which is admittedly less of a pistol, stills shoots quite well - especially for 1/3 the price! Most shooters can not come close to the actual potention of either pistol anyway. I have seen some really crack shots in competitions I have been in but they are few and far between.

 

[Oldsalt66]

There is no arguing that newer M-41's have issues, but is the pistol really that bad? Seems to me I have read a lot of posts where owners are having issues with their older M-41's too, so I wouldn't be too quick to burn just the new ones.

Truth is we really don't know what the warranty return rate is for new M-41 pistols and we don't know how many new owners are happy with their purchase. I took the bait once from so-called experts and bought a vintage M-41 and it was one of the worst decisions of my shooting life. It immediately had issues that cost me a bunch trying to correct all to no improvement. I sold that pistol at a loss and swore off ever buying another M-41. But a few years later S&W came out with the PC-M-41 and I fell in love with it and bought one. Unfortunately it too developed a problem and had to go back to the Mothership once and ONLY once. It was repaired and I had the pistol back in a few weeks and it has performed well ever since. I even had the barrel threaded so I could put a suppressor on the pistol and it is without a doubt the most enjoyable .22 pistol I own.

Here's the rub though. Every time some unknowing individual comes to this forum and others, looking for advice on purchasing a M-41 what are they told? Almost universally they are told to "buy old, buy vintage, but never buy new". And then a bunch of others chime in saying the same thing. People, especially people looking for purchase information, listen to this worldly advice and sales on new ones tanks out. How long can a company manufacture a product if it isn't selling to expectation? The only way for the factory to counter this is to raise the price of said item trying to keep it in production. I think I paid about $1,200.00 for my PC M-41 5 or so years ago and now they retail for $2,400.00. Quite an increase over that time, but not unexpected when potential customers are being driven away en-masse by the so-called faithful.

The end result is every time a potential customer is told don't buy a new one, it was a nail in the coffin of the M-41, so there should be many people here happy to discover the M-41 is being discontinued. You got your wish and now people will never be able to buy a new one. Even dealers don't as a rule stock these pistols anymore because they languish on the shelves. And truth be told there are no other .22 pistols made in the USA that compare to a M-41. One can force a pistol like a Ruger to mimic the performance of a M-41, but it will never BE a M-41. I have a Ruger MKIV that has all the mods done to it to make it "better", but it will never match my PC M-41 in feel and use.

I used to counter the individuals that said "never buy new", but after a while I felt like the little boy and the dike. Just too many holes to plug. So I for one will be saddened by the loss of the Model 41. It's a great pistol with a storied history and it is quite possibly the last vestige of a precision .22 cal pistol made in the USA. While the "new" one I bought had an initial problem, the factory warranty took care of it in a reasonable amount of time. Now I can honestly say looking at the Smith and Wesson web site there is nothing to see there.

Rick H.

So true and so very well said.

Thanks.

The new model 41 I bought in February of 2024 has been truly exemplary and since my local shop has two in stock I'm thinking about picking up another one.

It's the only pistol I've ever owned that actually needed to be broken in, but after a few hundred rounds of CCI SV it runs like a Rolex with any and all .22LR.

I'm not surprised the Model 41s are being discontinued since, unfortunately, they represent the sort of quality that's not widely appreciated anymore.

 

[cp1969]

Last week I read that S&W was going to discontinue the Model 41. I've always wanted one, so I ordered one. It's scheduled to arrive tomorrow, so I'll pick it up Wednesday. Always wanted one and should have bought one a long time ago.

 

[Beemerguy53]

I'm really happy I bought my Model 41 several years ago...and...here's a thought for other 41 owners...

I called S&W some years ago looking for a part (can't remember what it was now) for my Model 52, and was amazed when I was told there were no more parts available from the factory. I expressed amazement that there would be no parts available for such an iconic pistol, and the young man with whom I spoke told me that while the Model 52 was great in its day, now it's just another old gun...

If there's anything you want for your Model 41, I suggest you get it now and set it aside...

 

[Rick H.]

I can't say I am surprised at the response from the person you spoke with at Smith and Wesson, but to say the Model 52 is " just another old gun" is a slap in the face to those of us that have them, shoot them and cherish them. All of my M-52's have been far more than just another old gun. I have several old guns and know the difference.

Other than a fine old Sig P-210, or even a new American made P-210 there isn't another pistol that gets my blood flowing like a M-52. In a way the comments made by this S&W employee say a lot about the company. When I bought my discontinued German made Legend Sig P-210 I called Sig Firearms in the USA and asked them if they could look at my pistol and see if there was anything it needed and at a minimum replace all the springs in it. I fully expected to be told they wouldn't look at it because it was made in Germany and it was discontinued. This was long before the American made version hit the market.

The person transferred my call to a "gunsmith" and I explained to him what I was looking for. This guy literally jumped at the chance to work on my pistol and even sent me a pre-paid mailing label to make shipping easier for me. The gunsmith said they almost never have a chance to work on P-210's and he would be more than happy to look at mine. I was taken back at his response and quickly decided I would send it into them with full confidence the pistol would be in good hands and properly cared for. The P-210 came back to me about 3 weeks later with all work completed and very well done. My bill was about 100 bucks including the parts plus shipping and a hand written "Thank You For Allowing Us To Work On Your P-210" on the receipt. Quite a difference from the S&W response of "it's just another old gun".

Since that time I have added several more new Sigs to my small collection, but all are P-210's. In my estimation the Sig P-210 is the distant cousin of the S&W M-52. Both are very well made accurate old school firearms. So now I suppose on or about January 1, 2025, someone at Smith and Wesson will say the Model 41 is just another old gun. Sad, sad, sad.

Rick H.
P.S. Yesterday I ordered another PC M-41 so I have two now, in order to give one to each of my sons at a later time, before my dirt nap and before they become just another old gun.

 

[chief38]

Here is a target (orange dot) I shot when one of my students first got her Ruger Mark 4. The other target below was with my M41. As you can see there isn't much difference - except for 1 flyer. There have been days I can actually get better groups from her Ruger than my M41, but that is all on me - not the two pistols. The Volquartsen trigger upgrade kit installed in her Ruger feels "almost" as good as my M41. I'd say about 90% as good. For a gun costing 1/3 the price, that is a fairly good return on you $$.

Most shooter's buying a .22 target pistol will never use it in a real competition or match. They usually just use it for informal plinking or target shooting. Many here as well as new shooters are not as OCD or finicky as I and some others here are.

 

[Hair Trigger]

It's nice to know I'll have another model that S&W no longer makes.

 

[millerj7]

I use my 41 almost strictly as a very accurate field gun. It was purchased used a long time ago at a good price at the time due to being D&T (old Leupold M8-2x in a Conetrol mount) and cracked original stocks. The 5" Field/Sport barrel was exactly what I wanted. The s/n is 15xxx and the only stoppages (maybe 5) have been due to the rimfire ammunition. It has been flawless with good match-grade ammunition and the Herrett field stocks have made it perfect to carry in the woods. I realize the Ruger and Buckmark are, for all practical purposes, nearly as accurate, but for the same reason I can't shoot Glocks accurately, the grip angle is just wrong for me (I do use an M&P9 2.0 when in a "plastic gun" mood.)
I will just keep and cherish my 41, thank you!

 

[Beemerguy53]

I can't say I am surprised at the response from the person you spoke with at Smith and Wesson, but to say the Model 52 is " just another old gun" is a slap in the face to those of us that have them, shoot them and cherish them. All of my M-52's have been far more than just another old gun. I have several old guns and know the difference.

Other than a fine old Sig P-210, or even a new American made P-210 there isn't another pistol that gets my blood flowing like a M-52. In a way the comments made by this S&W employee say a lot about the company. When I bought my discontinued German made Legend Sig P-210 I called Sig Firearms in the USA and asked them if they could look at my pistol and see if there was anything it needed and at a minimum replace all the springs in it. I fully expected to be told they wouldn't look at it because it was made in Germany and it was discontinued. This was long before the American made version hit the market.

The person transferred my call to a "gunsmith" and I explained to him what I was looking for. This guy literally jumped at the chance to work on my pistol and even sent me a pre-paid mailing label to make shipping easier for me. The gunsmith said they almost never have a chance to work on P-210's and he would be more than happy to look at mine. I was taken back at his response and quickly decided I would send it into them with full confidence the pistol would be in good hands and properly cared for. The P-210 came back to me about 3 weeks later with all work completed and very well done. My bill was about 100 bucks including the parts plus shipping and a hand written "Thank You For Allowing Us To Work On Your P-210" on the receipt. Quite a difference from the S&W response of "it's just another old gun".

Since that time I have added several more new Sigs to my small collection, but all are P-210's. In my estimation the Sig P-210 is the distant cousin of the S&W M-52. Both are very well made accurate old school firearms. So now I suppose on or about January 1, 2025, someone at Smith and Wesson will say the Model 41 is just another old gun. Sad, sad, sad.

Rick H.
P.S. Yesterday I ordered another PC M-41 so I have two now, in order to give one to each of my sons at a later time, before my dirt nap and before they become just another old gun.

About a year ago, I bought a new Sig P-210, and agree completely with your assessment of it. The quality, and accuracy, are truly impressive. And yes, I was very disappointed at the attitude of the S&W employee with whom I spoke about my Model 52, but I chalked that up to his apparent age and lack of appreciation for the history of that company. (Not trying to divert the thread, but this sort of attitude is common, especially amongst young folks. I visit the National Air & Space Museum's Udvar-Hazy Center at Dulles Airport regularly, where people walk past the Enola Gay with little awareness of its historical significance.)

 

[Dave Haynes]

When we had a gun club, I would shoot matches with a 4 screw pre-18. I wanted a 41 and especially a 52 because who doesn't want to own and use the best money could buy? When I bought Maj. Bires' Model 41 and Bob Chow 45 it was a step in that direction. The 41 was under 5,000 and shot 20 years worth. I suspect that the 41 was fired exclusively with Winchester SuperX HV as there were several boxes with the gun. It has the heavy shorter barrel to mimic the weight of the 1911. The gun was hand fitted and tuned when it left the factory. To expect the same quality from one made by an assembler is asking a lot. They probably don't have a clue about what to look for or how to correct a problem. They are probably paid to work fast not carefully. The second echelon of "Experts" isn't much better or experienced. The bad press about new 41s is just the truth as a buyer sees it. If it is supposed to be a precision superior pistol IT SHOULD BE and apparently it isn't. Good enough isn't good enough...If S&W earned a bad rep, it's on them not the people telling their story.

 

[Jerry in SC]

When we had a gun club, I would shoot matches with a 4 screw pre-18. I wanted a 41 and especially a 52 because who doesn't want to own and use the best money could buy? When I bought Maj. Bires' Model 41 and Bob Chow 45 it was a step in that direction. The 41 was under 5,000 and shot 20 years worth. I suspect that the 41 was fired exclusively with Winchester SuperX HV as there were several boxes with the gun. It has the heavy shorter barrel to mimic the weight of the 1911. The gun was hand fitted and tuned when it left the factory. To expect the same quality from one made by an assembler is asking a lot. They probably don't have a clue about what to look for or how to correct a problem. They are probably paid to work fast not carefully. The second echelon of "Experts" isn't much better or experienced. The bad press about new 41s is just the truth as a buyer sees it. If it is supposed to be a precision superior pistol IT SHOULD BE and apparently it isn't. Good enough isn't good enough...If S&W earned a bad rep, it's on them not the people telling their story.

I don't know if my 2024 was hand tuned or not, but it has not had a single issue since I bought it. No FTE no FTF in 500 rounds of CCI SV so far. We have three and the only issue was one that had a loose rear sight. I fixed with a few taps with a punch on the bottom of the sight to tighten it up.

 

[Rick H.]

I agree with you Dave in all respects except one. Is what we hear or read about M-41's really the truth? We all expect everything to work as it should right from the get-go, but rarely, if ever, does it turn out that way. Have you bought a new car lately? Was it perfect right from the moment you picked it up? Was the paint job perfect? Were the body and interior panels all perfectly lined up? Did it have any squeaks, rattles or water leaks? I bought a brand new, at the time, 2023 Dodge Durango that went for $68K out the door. While it was a very nice vehicle it needed some warranty repair work to get it closer to perfect.

I also bought a brand new 2023 Honda Goldwing DCT which is a top of the line Honda motorcycle. It went for $30K out the door. 25 miles down the road I smelled something like oil burning and stopped to check it out. Turned out the final drive was leaking badly and had to be towed back to my house. I was hot on this one because it should have been caught on a pre-delivery test ride, which was never done because the bike only had 3 miles on it when I picked it up! I waited 6 weeks for that repair work. The point is we are blessed if something works as it should from point of purchase.

A firearm is no different from any other man made commodity, but what we don't know and never will know, is how many S&W Model 41's were made that needed to be returned for warranty repair work. Certainly all we can go by is what is posted on forums and some people post on a lot of forums when they have a problem. However we almost never hear from people that purchase a Model 41 that have no issues or problems with it. So any conclusion we may obtain is skewed because we really don't have all the information.

Most people looking for purchase recommendations for a Model 41 are told don't buy new, only buy vintage or old. New Model 41's are junk and are a waste of money. Truth is I have read about more older Model 41's needing work than new ones, but the saving grace with new M-41's is the warranty you get with the pistol. With an old one if it doesn't work you foot the repair bill if you can't fix it and I am the perfect example of that. My first M-41 purchase turned out to be a dog that cost me far more money than the purchase price trying to get it to work. I am a pretty savvy firearms guy, but that M-41 was a mystery to me. It quickly became my first ever Jam-A-Matic semi-auto pistol, but it did have a loaded chamber indicator, Woo-Hoo!

I just took my PC Model 41 out to the range yesterday and ran 100 rounds of CCI Green Tag thru it. Not one issue at all with it save for my shooting errors. It is my most favored .22 cal. pistol. Other than having a new ejector installed on it I have had no problems at all with it. While it may not have the nicely blued finish of a very well cared for vintage M-41 it is certainly no slouch in the appearance department. I decided the best thing I could do was order another new PC Model 41 so that each of my sons would have one after I am history. They will both not only have something to remember the old man by, but they will each have a piece of history from a company that used to make a great firearm. I only wish I had purchased the second one a bit sooner while the price was a bit lower, but he who hesitates pays....

Rick H.

 

[sceva]

Mine is a 1973 vintage 5" heavy barrel. My Son-in-law is a Glock guy; he was amazed at how heavy my Model 41, K-22 and my 1911 are. I just said I preferred steel and wood over plastic.

 

[Dave Haynes]

I agree with you Dave in all respects except one. Is what we hear or read about M-41's really the truth? We all expect everything to work as it should right from the get-go, but rarely, if ever, does it turn out that way. Have you bought a new car lately? Was it perfect right from the moment you picked it up? Was the paint job perfect? Were the body and interior panels all perfectly lined up? Did it have any squeaks, rattles or water leaks? I bought a brand new, at the time, 2023 Dodge Durango that went for $68K out the door. While it was a very nice vehicle it needed some warranty repair work to get it closer to perfect.

I also bought a brand new 2023 Honda Goldwing DCT which is a top of the line Honda motorcycle. It went for $30K out the door. 25 miles down the road I smelled something like oil burning and stopped to check it out. Turned out the final drive was leaking badly and had to be towed back to my house. I was hot on this one because it should have been caught on a pre-delivery test ride, which was never done because the bike only had 3 miles on it when I picked it up! I waited 6 weeks for that repair work. The point is we are blessed if something works as it should from point of purchase.

A firearm is no different from any other man made commodity, but what we don't know and never will know, is how many S&W Model 41's were made that needed to be returned for warranty repair work. Certainly all we can go by is what is posted on forums and some people post on a lot of forums when they have a problem. However we almost never hear from people that purchase a Model 41 that have no issues or problems with it. So any conclusion we may obtain is skewed because we really don't have all the information.

Most people looking for purchase recommendations for a Model 41 are told don't buy new, only buy vintage or old. New Model 41's are junk and are a waste of money. Truth is I have read about more older Model 41's needing work than new ones, but the saving grace with new M-41's is the warranty you get with the pistol. With an old one if it doesn't work you foot the repair bill if you can't fix it and I am the perfect example of that. My first M-41 purchase turned out to be a dog that cost me far more money than the purchase price trying to get it to work. I am a pretty savvy firearms guy, but that M-41 was a mystery to me. It quickly became my first ever Jam-A-Matic semi-auto pistol, but it did have a loaded chamber indicator, Woo-Hoo!

I just took my PC Model 41 out to the range yesterday and ran 100 rounds of CCI Green Tag thru it. Not one issue at all with it save for my shooting errors. It is my most favored .22 cal. pistol. Other than having a new ejector installed on it I have had no problems at all with it. While it may not have the nicely blued finish of a very well cared for vintage M-41 it is certainly no slouch in the appearance department. I decided the best thing I could do was order another new PC Model 41 so that each of my sons would have one after I am history. They will both not only have something to remember the old man by, but they will each have a piece of history from a company that used to make a great firearm. I only wish I had purchased the second one a bit sooner while the price was a bit lower, but he who hesitates pays....

Rick H.

Hi Rick,
My last new car was a 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser. I ordered it with 2 wheel drive because I didn't want to haul around 300 lbs of transfer case and differential that I would never use. In 18 years it needed a new alternator (90K) a set of brakes and a rear door actuator (80K). They built them in a special Factory in N.Japan. The finish was flawless, a baked on enamel paint that isn't legal in the US. I recently had a noise in the heater fan. It was a 15 minute job 3 bolts under the glove box. V6 and stick hydro type 5 speed all work perfect. Used it is still worth $18K.
The 41s are still a fine pistol by design and today are probably a better pistol because of superior steel and CNC machinery. But the truth lies in the result. Great design starts the product but attention to detail is what makes something great. Americans have been trained to accept a good try. When something comes across that works as designed and looks like it, people are now surprised instead of fulfilled. Pride and loyalty to the company were hallmarks of the American gun industry. Now people who would be just as happy assembling toasters are building our guns. It is too bad but that's just the way it is. Having to be happy about it is a choice and I vote NO....

 

[72AV8R]

I wonder how many 41s were made in total.