First AR-15 (budget or save up)

[WR Moore]

Please explain.

I see different barrel twists advertised. I personally have a 1:7 and a 1:8 and don't see any difference. Why do some vendors sell 1:9?

Definitive tests by the DOD showed the 1-9 to deliver superior accuracy with bullets in the 55-65 gr weight class. I've seen great accuracy with 75 gr, but you have to watch the length of the bullet. The 75 gr Hornady HPBT stabilizes, the longer A-Max doesn't. The 1-7 twist was standardized to stabilize the much longer tracer round. It's occasionally proven a problem with lightly jacketed 55 gr expanding bullets, the FMJ is no problem.

Commercially produced .223/5.56 can have a wide range of bullet weights/designs......unless you're looking at ball duplicates and even then 62 gr is available.

 

[jackmoineau]

This thread is just in time for me since we're in the same boat, except I'm in Europe.

I own a Glock 17/26 and a S&W 686-6 (4")/19-7 (2.5").

By far, I prefer handguns, so I won't be buying many rifles. I enjoy precision shooting, so a .22 LR bolt-action rifle would probably be enough for training, but I'm also considering an AR15 in case of SHTF. Just like the OP, I'd rather buy ONE rifle and keep it. I'm just at the beginning of my research, but I've looked into models like the DDM4V7, Colt, S&W M&P 15 Sport III, and LMT. I'm thinking of a 16-inch barrel, though ideally, I'd go for 18 or 20 inches. I could also custom build it (haven't reached out yet, but I'm lucky enough that there's a skilled gunsmith specializing in ARs here in Belgium).

I don't have easy access to long-range shooting spots (mostly limited to 100m), so initially, the funds would likely go towards the rifle itself (and magazines + ammo). I like iron sights, so maybe a red dot in the future, but no immediate need for a long-range scope.

What I still don't fully understand is the exact difference between a Picatinny rail and the "cylindrical" front part, like on a Colt, for example. I like simple, clean designs, but isn't it harder to attach accessories to this front part in this case?

Also, the law here is a bit special. I can easily get any bolt-action or lever-action rifle in any caliber, but it's harder to get semi-autos (though not impossible). So maybe I should just start with a good bolt-action rifle (or a lever-action to use my .38/.357 ammo)? As I read above, there's what you need and what you want...

 

[dtwn92]

To the OP, if you haven't shot one, go shoot one. This will answer many of your questions. If you have shot one, I'd guess you'd not be here asking this question.
AR's are fun, versatile and affordable. You talked about tools, this is the speed square or multi tool on your belt.
As for price, I don't know what "affordable" is to you, $400 -$4000 depending on what you make can be affordable to most. Buy what you think you can grow with.
As for what to use it for...Putting holes in paper, varmints, other game. If a riot comes and you don't have one, you'll wish you did. If it never happens, minimalist or not, you'll have a tool you can either grow with or move on.
In other words, don't over think it, grab one and see if this is something that can make you a force multiplier for w/e you might need it for even if putting holes in paper is the only thing you ever do with it.

 

[wood714]

This thread is just in time for me since we're in the same boat, except I'm in Europe.

I'm just at the beginning of my research, but I've looked into models like the DDM4V7, Colt, S&W M&P 15 Sport III, and LMT. I'm thinking of a 16-inch barrel, though ideally, I'd go for 18 or 20 inches. I could also custom build it (haven't reached out yet, but I'm lucky enough that there's a skilled gunsmith specializing in ARs here in Belgium).


What I still don't fully understand is the exact difference between a Picatinny rail and the "cylindrical" front part, like on a Colt, for example. I like simple, clean designs, but isn't it harder to attach accessories to this front part in this case?

This thread is just in time for me since we're in the same boat, except I'm in Europe.

I own a Glock 17/26 and a S&W 686-6 (4")/19-7 (2.5").

By far, I prefer handguns, so I won't be buying many rifles. I enjoy precision shooting, so a .22 LR bolt-action rifle would probably be enough for training, but I'm also considering an AR15 in case of SHTF. Just like the OP, I'd rather buy ONE rifle and keep it. I'm just at the beginning of my research, but I've looked into models like the DDM4V7, Colt, S&W M&P 15 Sport III, and LMT. I'm thinking of a 16-inch barrel, though ideally, I'd go for 18 or 20 inches. I could also custom build it (haven't reached out yet, but I'm lucky enough that there's a skilled gunsmith specializing in ARs here in Belgium).



What I still don't fully understand is the exact difference between a Picatinny rail and the "cylindrical" front part, like on a Colt, for example. I like simple, clean designs, but isn't it harder to attach accessories to this front part in this case?

That's one of the great things about AR's. The lower is the registered part. You can swap uppers by just pulling to pins. You could go from a 16" upper to a 24" upper in seconds. You can also swap calibers of the uppers...

"The AR-15 lower receiver allows for the interchangeability of certain calibers, allowing shooters to switch between them while maintaining the same lower receiver. Here are the calibers that can be interchanged:

• 223 Remington
• 22 Nosler
• 224 Valkyrie
• 6 mm ARC
• 6.5 Grendel
• 6.8 SPC
• 300 Blackout
• 300 HAMR
• 30 Remington AR
• 7.62 x 39 rounds
• 350 Legend
• 450 Bushmaster"

If you want to attach stuff to your upper a flat top with a free float handguard is the way to go.

If you like old school, a regular round handguard will work. They do make a picatinny rail that will bolt thru the holes in round handguards.

 

[jgang123]

PSA gets you in the game.

 

[GypsmJim]

PSA gets you in the game.

That's a common answer in this thread.

 

[jgang123]

That's a common answer in this thread.

I'm not sure it's the best one, but they do work. I got into 9mm with Stoeger now its a full size m&p 2.0 I'm waiting for.

 

[langss]

That's one of the great things about AR's. The lower is the registered part. You can swap uppers by just pulling to pins. You could go from a 16" upper to a 24" upper in seconds. You can also swap calibers of the uppers...

"The AR-15 lower receiver allows for the interchangeability of certain calibers, allowing shooters to switch between them while maintaining the same lower receiver. Here are the calibers that can be interchanged:

• 223 Remington
• 22 Nosler
• 224 Valkyrie
• 6 mm ARC
• 6.5 Grendel
• 6.8 SPC
• 300 Blackout
• 300 HAMR
• 30 Remington AR
• 7.62 x 39 rounds
• 350 Legend
• 450 Bushmaster"

If you want to attach stuff to your upper a flat top with a free float handguard is the way to go.

If you like old school, a regular round handguard will work. They do make a picatinny rail that will bolt thru the holes in round handguards.

Although not for the "Inexperienced", one can also have a 9mm using the same lower that you listed all those uppers with. It can be done "Colt" style with a Mag Block, or CMMG sells a Magazine that fits directly into the "Magwell" , but again this is not something for the inexperienced. I have one older CMMG 9mm upper that got me started and now I have 2 PSA 9mm uppers that I'm building another gun for.

 

[GypsmJim]

I'm not sure it's the best one, but they do work. I got into 9mm with Stoeger now its a full size m&p 2.0 I'm waiting for.

What does BEST mean. If you are talking about automobiles, it could be cheapest, highest gas mileage, pettiest, best resale value, fastest, highest price, American made, yada, yada.

To me the best is a Chevy. Nevertheless, these days I drive a Cadillac, after 50 years of Chevies. Why? I wanted one.

As far as ARs, A $450 PSA is good enough.

 

[biku324]

That's one of the great things about AR's. The lower is the registered part. You can swap uppers by just pulling to pins. You could go from a 16" upper to a 24" upper in seconds. You can also swap calibers of the uppers...

"The AR-15 lower receiver allows for the interchangeability of certain calibers, allowing shooters to switch between them while maintaining the same lower receiver. Here are the calibers that can be interchanged:

• 223 Remington
• 22 Nosler
• 224 Valkyrie
• 6 mm ARC
• 6.5 Grendel
• 6.8 SPC
• 300 Blackout
• 300 HAMR
• 30 Remington AR
• 7.62 x 39 rounds
• 350 Legend
• 450 Bushmaster"

If you want to attach stuff to your upper a flat top with a free float handguard is the way to go.

If you like old school, a regular round handguard will work. They do make a picatinny rail that will bolt thru the holes in round handguards.

Hadn't heard of the 30 Remington AR or 300 HAMR in years!

 

[hardluk1]

Although not for the "Inexperienced", one can also have a 9mm using the same lower that you listed all those uppers with. It can be done "Colt" style with a Mag Block, or CMMG sells a Magazine that fits directly into the "Magwell" , but again this is not something for the inexperienced. I have one older CMMG 9mm upper that got me started and now I have 2 PSA 9mm uppers that I'm building another gun for.

I built a AR9 but used standard AR15 upper and lower along with a Stoner colt smg mag adaptor . Runs great too using low cost anderson upper and lower to start with bought at our local lgs / general store . I never owned a factory assembled AR and our two AR15's started with Aero Precision stripped upper and lowers when they started selling to the public . A few months back I did buy an assembled PSA 10.5 5.56 upper as the price was so low on a "special" I had to try one . Takes 3 minutes to swamp out uppers on the AR9 to a ar15 10.5" 5.56 upper, remove the stoner mag adaptor and change buffer to a lighter 5.4oz buffer . Runs great and serves as a HD with a light / laser combo added or shorter yardage use . Its not a moa or less shooter but not a bad ether .

 

[Imissedagain]

Curious as to the "condition and accuracy" of the budget AR15/5.56 after 20K plus rounds fired?
How much have they degraded, since new, compared to a current 6920 or equivalent ?
100-300 yard groups, prone or elbows on the bench.
Thanks.

 

[langss]

I built a AR9 but used standard AR15 upper and lower along with a Stoner colt smg mag adaptor . Runs great too using low cost anderson upper and lower to start with bought at our local lgs / general store . I never owned a factory assembled AR and our two AR15's started with Aero Precision stripped upper and lowers when they started selling to the public . A few months back I did buy an assembled PSA 10.5 5.56 upper as the price was so low on a "special" I had to try one . Takes 3 minutes to swamp out uppers on the AR9 to a ar15 10.5" 5.56 upper, remove the stoner mag adaptor and change buffer to a lighter 5.4oz buffer . Runs great and serves as a HD with a light / laser combo added or shorter yardage use . Its not a moa or less shooter but not a bad ether .

If I had the tools and the time, I would build all my own stuff, But the two 9mm uppers I bought from PSA worked as expected on my already Mag Blocked lower, which was why I decided to build a second gun. Living in Komiefornia, I have to make everything conform so I try to use what I already have that works as much as possible.

 

[ColbyBruce]

"Curious as to the "condition and accuracy" of the budget AR15/5.56 after 20K plus rounds fired?
How much have they degraded, since new, compared to a current 6920 or equivalent ?
100-300 yard groups, prone or elbows on the bench."


YouTube's RobSki and Garand Thumb both tested PSA AR's. Search for their results, though neither man did a 20,000 round test the data was interesting.

 

[shep854]

Rob Ski (AK Operator's Union Local 47/74) used to run some rather tough tests to 5,000 rd.
He broke a few.

 

[wood714]

Curious as to the "condition and accuracy" of the budget AR15/5.56 after 20K plus rounds fired?
How much have they degraded, since new, compared to a current 6920 or equivalent ?
100-300 yard groups, prone or elbows on the bench.
Thanks.

Cool thing about AR's. It's a simple task to swap a shot out barrel for a brand new one. Same with the lower, just buy a new lower parts kit.

Other than a bench vice, I can't think of anything not in this picture you'd need.