Help setting up an old school duty belt

Shrek Of The Arctic · #1 03-08-2021, 05:26 PM

Hey y'all, Like the title says, I'm looking to set up and old school duty belt, like...sixties, early seventies era. I'd like to duplicate one like my Father carried as a Police Officer in the late sixties, but it doesn't have to be historically accurate to the Nth degree.

No real purpose in the endeavor, I just think it would be a neat contrast to my own duty belt, and go well with the current pile of older S&W revolvers I happen to own.

Here's what's on my mind so far:

Gun holster: No idea. I'm not too sure whether they had thumb breaks, front breaks, or any style of retention system. I've got a pretty crude break front that fits my K frames, but I think it might be a bit far ahead of the time frame.

Dump pouch or ammo loop- I seem to recall speed loaders weren't a thing yet in the late sixties, or perhaps they were a new technology that not every PD was up to speed on yet.

Flashlight: I think I'm gonna want to hunt down an old school four or six D cell maglite. I don't think I've seen one of those in quite a few years.

Baton: I remember this one. Old school, straight hickory baton. No Monadnocks, side handles, etc. I just gotta figger out how the heck they were carried.

Mace: I wanna find a Mk3 sized can of mace. Not pepper spray, but mace. (Remember, this is for fun, not real world use) I need to learn more about what canister was utilized and how it was carried, if there was any difference.

Handcuffs: I'm not sure it's changed much. Carriers seem the same, it seems shiny was more in favor than black back in the day. I don't know that the hanging loop style of carrier was a thing. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Radio pouch/old radio: I have no idea?

Just looking at this list makes me appreciate the differences in the weight of duty belts themselves, and the different equipment. Tasers, tourniquets, Surefire flashlights, etc.

I've been asking my Father, but...he doesn't always remember super well, so pictures, ideas, and perspectives would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for any assistance you may be able to lend to my endeavor!

Muley Gil · #2 03-08-2021, 06:07 PM

I started in LE in '76, but worked with officers that had started in the late '40s.

I'm going to go on the premise that you're in the east or midwest. Western and southwestern would have a cowboy slant.

Sam Browne belt: plain black or basketweave. Big silver or brass buckle. Leather keepers to match.
Holster: Border Patrol with a strap over the hammer.
Ammo carrier: loops or dump pouches would have correct.
Night stick: straight wooden stick with either a turned larger stop or a straight stick with a rubber stopper. Carried on strap & ring on the belt or stuck between Sam Browne and the trouser belt.
Handcuffs: S&W, Peerless or Colt-most likely nickel plated. Carried on a strap or in a pouch.
Flashlight: most officers carried a Ray-O-Vac 2 cell aluminum Sportsman, but the 3 and 4 cell heavy aluminum flashlights were beginning to appear in the early '70s.
Mace: some officers carried it, usually in an open pouch.
Portable radios: they weren't in general issue in most departments. The SO and PD I worked issued them at the beginning of the shift, if we had enough to go around. Many patrol units only had the car radio.

Shrek Of The Arctic · #3 03-08-2021, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muley Gil

I started in LE in '76, but worked with officers that had started in the late '40s.

I'm going to go on the premise that you're in the east or midwest. Western and southwestern would have a cowboy slant.

Sam Browne belt: plain black or basketweave. Big silver or brass buckle. Leather keepers to match.
Holster: Border Patrol with a strap over the hammer.
Ammo carrier: loops or dump pouches would have correct.
Night stick: straight wooden stick with either a turned larger stop or a straight stick with a rubber stopper. Carried on strap & ring on the belt or stuck between Sam Browne and the trouser belt.
Handcuffs: S&W, Peerless or Colt-most likely nickel plated. Carried on a strap or in a pouch.
Flashlight: most officers carried a Ray-O-Vac 2 cell aluminum Sportsman, but the 3 and 4 cell heavy aluminum flashlights were beginning to appear in the early '70s.
Mace: some officers carried it, usually in an open pouch.
Portable radios: they weren't in general issue in most departments. The SO and PD I worked issued them at the beginning of the shift, if we had enough to go around. Many patrol units only had the car radio.

Thank you! I'm actually in Alaska. My Father was a cop in Pheonix, AZ. Kinda funny. I hadn't envisioned a duty belt without a radio. I woulda figgered they were ten pound bricks with a 100 foot range, but...something.

That much more to respect in the old lawmen, I suppose.

bearpa · #4 03-08-2021, 06:22 PM

Plain black leather belt with nickel or brass buckle, good possibility it was a Sam Brown with the strap going over the shoulder. Not a break-away-strap, had D rings on the belt to which the strap was attached via nickel/brass snaps.

Holster was black leather, may have had a flap over the gun, if not has a conventional strap going over the hammer and attaching to the holster via a metal snap, brass/nickel. Either a high rise, border patrol style or a swivel. For a revolver S&W or Colt, as autos were not appreciated then.

Oak or hickory night stick, carried in a ring suspended from the gun belt by a leather strap. Would have a leather thong attached to the handle of the stick, the handle of which would been grooved for a better grip.

Flash light more than likely a Ray O Vac Sportsman, probably a 6 to 9 cell, shinny nickel. Kel-Lights, Mag Lights and the others did not come into widespread use until late 70's.

Plain black cuff case, Peerless or S&W cuffs with chain link and key opening to secure.

Some agencies used black basketweave leather and most sheriff departments used brown leather.

Portable radio carriers were leather, rather large as the radios were quite large with long antennas. You could actual use the antenna as a long skinny night stick or sap in a pinch!

All this is available on E-Bay. Night sticks can get pricey, for some reason.

He probably carried a flat sap or spring loaded, shot filled say in his sap pocket which would have been sewed into the pants leg on his gun hand side or in his pants hip pocket. They're getting pricy also!

The reload would have been a leather slide on cartridge loop attached to the belt or on the swivel holsters the cartridge loops would be sewed into the top hanger on the holster. Some officers carried cartridge dump pouches. Speed loaders did not come into common use until mid to late 70's, depending on the area in the country. 12 extra cartridges for reloads, more than likely 158 grain lead round nose.

MACE, CS or CN gas would not have been standard issue to officers until mid 70's.

The weight of the gun belt fully equipped was substantially lighter then now.

Good luck with your mission, sounds like fun.

elpac3 · #5 03-08-2021, 08:17 PM

Safariland Sam brown
Safariland Border patrol holster / Bianchi model 27 front break also authorized
Drop pouches
Closed top handcuff case
Three cell kel-light in ring drop holder
18” stick with rubber grommet with ring drop holder
Key ring with flap leg protector
Mace in snap closure holder ( which generally rode on the spot light handle inside the car)

Did not have portable radios yet, fire department still used fire siren for fire call outs

crazyphil · #6 03-08-2021, 08:23 PM

Jim Cirillo was about the best known cop in the time period you are
interested in. A few years ago I tried to track down what kind of rig
he used to carry his M&P (later known as Model 10) with 4" Bull Barrel.
The most evidence I could find, including two cops who shot with him
on the range, told me he used this Bucheimer-Clark Swivel Trooper
holster, or one very much like it, and the additional slide with 12 more
cartridges.

ron 57 · #7 03-08-2021, 08:38 PM

Older officers tended to carry what they had become comfortable with over the years. Sometimes they gently chastised new hires who wanted the latest and greatest they had seen in the new issue of the police supply catalog. Clarino leather comes to mind.
I came on in 1978 and plain leather with pouches was used by most officers in my department. Some older ones had a swivel holster with loops built in. Flashlights were usually two-cell (the kind you could buy at the drugstore) and were kept in the car until needed. One officer had a seven or eight cell Ray-O-Vac of the type coon hunters favored. He kept it jammed into the seat beside him. I don’t think portable radios were used on our department until the early 70’s. When I came on we had the heavy Motorola HT’s that were carried in a leather case that was always scuffed up because it rubbed on everything!

VaTom · #8 03-08-2021, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muley Gil

I started in LE in '76, but worked with officers that had started in the late '40s.

I'm going to go on the premise that you're in the east or midwest. Western and southwestern would have a cowboy slant.

Sam Browne belt: plain black or basketweave. Big silver or brass buckle. Leather keepers to match.
Holster: Border Patrol with a strap over the hammer.
Ammo carrier: loops or dump pouches would have correct.
Night stick: straight wooden stick with either a turned larger stop or a straight stick with a rubber stopper. Carried on strap & ring on the belt or stuck between Sam Browne and the trouser belt.
Handcuffs: S&W, Peerless or Colt-most likely nickel plated. Carried on a strap or in a pouch.
Flashlight: most officers carried a Ray-O-Vac 2 cell aluminum Sportsman, but the 3 and 4 cell heavy aluminum flashlights were beginning to appear in the early '70s.
Mace: some officers carried it, usually in an open pouch.
Portable radios: they weren't in general issue in most departments. The SO and PD I worked issued them at the beginning of the shift, if we had enough to go around. Many patrol units only had the car radio.

Muley Gil has it right. I also started in 1976. We had plain leather black Sam Brown Belt but with 3 rows of stitching-silver buckle. Border patrol holsters (strap) with double drop pouch in front of holster, mace worn on opposite side from revolver (Model 10 - 4" nickel), nightstick (baton) had a rubber grommet that kept it in the ring on the belt-it also had a leather throng that went over your thumb and around the back of your hand when you had to use it. Also worn on opposite side from revolver. Mace in Open top carrier. Motorola portable radio in black leather case. (Two man units only issued one potable radio - carried by the officer riding shotgun.) Most units were one man units. Our handcuff cases were closed top. We also carried a whistle on a silver cord that attached to shoulder strap button of shirt.

I worked for a city police department here in Va. that had about 200 sworn officers. Uniform regulations were strictly enforced and everyone had to wear their gear the same way and only what was issued. (You provided your shoes and flashlights.) I carried a 3 c cell Kel-Light (aluminum). Mag and Kel Lights were the two players in the police flashlight segment. High Standard 12 Guage Riot Shotgun then switched to Remington 870s.

LPD256 · #9 03-08-2021, 10:09 PM

I can tell you exactly what I carried because it’s hanging on the wall in my man cave. The swivel holster has loops for ammo currently carrying a Crosman S&W for show. Double dump pouch with 12 more rounds. Small pepper spray. Handcuff case. I carried another set of cuffs on the front, flashlight loop, key chain, and a loop for my nightstick. Radio case. All fit on my waist which was smaller . This rig and the boots were from Dehner Custom Bootmakers in Omaha. It was Corfam which could be polished with lemon Pledge. It has been through a fire, hence all the cracks. Enjoy. I bought this in 1973.

K Frame Keith · #10 03-08-2021, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyphil

Jim Cirillo was about the best known cop in the time period you are
interested in. A few years ago I tried to track down what kind of rig
he used to carry his M&P (later known as Model 10) with 4" Bull Barrel.
The most evidence I could find, including two cops who shot with him
on the range, told me he used this Bucheimer-Clark Swivel Trooper
holster, or one very much like it, and the additional slide with 12 more

cartridges.

Old school, that's the holster. Add a baton ring and a cuff carrier and you're good. My dad replaced the second loop carrier with a set of JayPee drop boxes but that's all. No mace, radios, etc.
speed loaders were just catching on in the early eighties. I carried a Bianchi hurricane, drop boxes and speed loaders, but that's too late for your set up.

Muley Gil · #11 03-08-2021, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrek Of The Arctic

Thank you! I'm actually in Alaska. My Father was a cop in Pheonix, AZ. Kinda funny. I hadn't envisioned a duty belt without a radio. I woulda figgered they were ten pound bricks with a 100 foot range, but...something.

That much more to respect in the old lawmen, I suppose.

A lot of western lawmen, including Border Patrolmen, wore Sam Browne belts that had the Ranger buckle and billet, which had a smaller buckle and billet sewn to the larger 2 1/4" belt.

crazyphil · #12 03-08-2021, 11:52 PM

In the late 1960s and early 1970s the Boise Police Department issued
Model 10 with 4" barrels to uniform officers. Model 10 with 2" barrels
to plain-cloths officers.

Personal owned Model 19s or Pythons were permitted if inspected and
approved.

Duty ammo was 140-Gr. Speer Soft Nose Hollow Point for both the
issue and permitted revolvers.

The Jordan Border Patrol holster was specified in plain black or basket
weave. Crossdraw was not permtted.

kennethg · #13 03-10-2021, 06:58 PM

Shrek,
All these items were issued to me in 1966 except the holster and the S&W model 19 that I purchased in January 1967. They were purchased when I could afford them to replace the S&W model 15 and the suicide holster that was issued to me. I do regret throwing that holster away during one of my rare purging episodes.
The issue ammunition was very quickly replaced with better ammunition.
The handcuffs are made by THE PEERLESS HANDCUFF CO. and THE IRON CLAW is made by the ARGUS MFG. CO. The gas billy is made by FEDERAL LABRATORIES INC.
The issue flashlight was a 2 C cell black and chrome light that was replaced with a 5 C cell Rayovac light until better lights were available.
No mace then and I don’t remember when we got them. No radios then either. First people in patrol to get radio’s were the K9 officers who worked alone during hours of darkness.
Apparently, my night stick ring has disappeared.
Several of these items are available on the internet. Good luck on your quest.

sipowicz · #14 03-10-2021, 07:14 PM

eBay has tons.

majick47 · #15 03-10-2021, 08:11 PM

Depending what you need I have mostly black basketweave from Bianchi for the asking.

Muley Gil · #16 03-10-2021, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennethg

Shrek,
All these items were issued to me in 1966 except the holster and the S&W model 19 that I purchased in January 1967. They were purchased when I could afford them to replace the S&W model 15 and the suicide holster that was issued to me. I do regret throwing that holster away during one of my rare purging episodes.
The issue ammunition was very quickly replaced with better ammunition.
The handcuffs are made by THE PEERLESS HANDCUFF CO. and THE IRON CLAW is made by the ARGUS MFG. CO. The gas billy is made by FEDERAL LABRATORIES INC.
The issue flashlight was a 2 C cell black and chrome light that was replaced with a 5 C cell Rayovac light until better lights were available.
No mace then and I don’t remember when we got them. No radios then either. First people in patrol to get radio’s were the K9 officers who worked alone during hours of darkness.
Apparently, my night stick ring has disappeared.
Several of these items are available on the internet. Good luck on your quest.

What are you calling a suicide holster? Crossdraw?

robvious · #17 03-10-2021, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LPD256

This rig and the boots were from Dehner Custom Bootmakers in Omaha.

Dehner is still in business in Omaha...

kennethg · #18 03-10-2021, 08:42 PM

Muley Gil "What are you calling a suicide holster? Crossdraw?"

It was a swivel holster with 2 short straps with snaps on the ends that went over the hammer. There was no quick release metal tab to use to release the snaps. It took both hands to unsnap it.

Wyatt Burp · #19 03-10-2021, 08:52 PM

I have this rig I was going to eventually put up for sale. It's a cordovan colored Compton holster on an almost matching color Clark belt with shoulder strap and handcuffs (no key) included. The unusual basketweave matches the belt. A 5" Colt Official Police seems to be what the holster fits. My 4" M&P looks good in it, too but a little loose. Handcuff snap is broke but I might be able to fix that.

EMS6260 · #20 03-11-2021, 10:17 PM

I have my old duty belt set up but from the 80's

Plain black Jay-Pee duty belt, had to buy with silver buckle, after years looks brassish

Jay Pee swivel holster for model 10 Heavy barrel also have issue no swivel speed loader pouch and original dump pouches

Keepers, key holder, MkVI S&W mace holder, baton loop for straight hickory baton, leatherman tool and case , flashlight holder leather for D cell or SL-20x Motorola MX series plastic radio belt clip, later Saber case then a smaller holder for a small radio, two cuff cases from Jay Pee

Leather spiral notebook

Thinking about it 30 pounds plus of stuff no wonder my back aches

jdh · #21 03-12-2021, 09:03 AM

(I can't believe I'm about to say this)

Watch some Andy Griffith reruns. The prop department did a decent job of putting together the deputy's (No, I cannot say the name, I just can't) duty belt.

Buford57 · #22 03-12-2021, 11:52 PM

If you find a stick (batons are for majorettes) the rubber grommet goes with the big end toward the ring. Keepers are also good for securing a second set of cuffs. A key clip, with or without the leather tab.

I think there's a bag of keepers and a 3 cell Kel-lite around here somewhere.

lawandorder · #23 03-13-2021, 07:14 PM

There is a Phoenix Police Department Museum.
Why guess? Contact them and I am sure they will be glad to help you with Department and Era specific info.

Shrek Of The Arctic · #24 03-17-2021, 06:23 PM

Thank y'all for the input! Lots of great ideas and history there. I think for mace, I'll end up using one of my retired cans of OC with the label long gone. Radio holder is super low priority at this point.

I'm just wrapping up my work week. Back is a little sore from my uber lightweight Safsriland composite belt with kydex. nylon, etc. The old school cops with pure leather, keepers, hickory sticks and mag lights had to have been darn tough.