Range restrictions on FMJ for rifle

Gary-I have never seen a properly designed 25 yard steel pistol target get punctured by any commonly used pistol fmj round. What type of steel are your targets?

If people are consistently shooting rifles at 25 yard steel targets, someone might want to consider taking the targets down. This is too close even for 500 brinell.

If the shooting is unsupervised/un observed, how does anyone know whether fmj goes through the target more than lead tipped?

And yes, steel used exclusively for cowboy action pistol matches are another story al together.
 
I have NEVER heard of banning FMJ at an outdoor range.

I know of a lot of outdoor ranges that ban tracers due to the fire hazard and have seen them start fires myself.

I've often seen barring of steel cored penetration, armor piercing, armor piercing incendary and SLAP rounds at steel targets.

My local indoor range burned down 6 weeks ago due to an idiot dump a AR15 with tracers into a backstop of rubber pellets. They will have to tear down the range (only 18 months old) and had to remove and replace EVERYTHING in the store. They had one hell of a Fire Sale though.
 
sureshotbob said:
My local private club has a restriction on bullets with a steel core but full metal jacket are ok.
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Same-same my range. Steel core can penetrate the backstop, or bounce right back toward the firing line. Never heard of issues with FMJ.
 
Simmer down said:
I've given up looking for a FMJ range around Dallas. I have several 100 rounds of 7.39 and an AK sitting on the sidelines for some time now.
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You might check out the Parker County Sportsman's Club:
Parker County Sportsman Club

It is located near Poolville in Parker County. Nice ranges and they have CMP affiliated matches. No FMJ restrictions that I can remember.

After orientation and being accepted as a member, you get a key to the gate and can shoot pretty much whenever you want, unless a particular range is closed for maintenance or a match.

I was a member before moving to MN, and the only "problem" I ran into out there was meeting a lot of nice folk and spending more time visiting than shooting ;)
 
I vaguely recall that at a range I used to go to, they would dig up the dirt backstops once a year to recover the bullets so that they could sell them as scrap lead. Scrap lead is currently only bringing about 15 cents per pound, but it doesn't take many bullets to make a pound.
 
The range I use has target stands made from re-bar, crude but they work.

Re-bar is not AR 500, when it gets hit a nice gouge appears. Now it's not easy to hit a 1" re-bar at 100 yards if you are trying, but many folks that can't get on paper seem to be able to repeatedly hit the target stand.

If it were up to me I would forbid people that can't at least hit the backer from using FMJ rounds.

In fact, perhaps restriction to air soft might be a creative idea.
 
oldRoger said:
The range I use has target stands made from re-bar, crude but they work.

Re-bar is not AR 500, when it gets hit a nice gouge appears. Now it's not easy to hit a 1" re-bar at 100 yards if you are trying, but many folks that can't get on paper seem to be able to repeatedly hit the target stand.
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I got chewed out at a range for using bulldog clips to hold my targets on the grounds of a ricochet. My excuse that I was too poor a shot to hit one didn't wash for some reason.:confused::D
 
It might all depend on what lies in the far background. FMJ does seem to ricochet more than others. Depending on the kind of impact area behind the targets, and any housing that may fall within a couple miles. We had a situation on our High Power 600 yd range where individuals would put targets out at the 100, 200 , 300, etc yard mark, but there wasn't a build impact area, just the natural incline of the terrain. (we did have specific two station target butts but only on the first two targets for sighting in.) When we shoot matches we always move the line so all rounds impact the built up impact area. When the individuals put up targets at the intermediate distances so they can shoot from under the covered firing point rounds ricocheted and a neighbor that lived 1 1/2 miles away that had build a new house in line with the 600 yd range brought us a few hundred bullets that he picked up in his yard. We had to put up camera's and have large signs to "Never" put up targets in the intermediate distances and only shoot into a designated impact area.
 
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Does the range itself, or someone connected to it, sell ammunition? The may find it more profitable, in terms of mark up, to sell hunting type ammunition.
 
H Richard said:
It might all depend on what lies in the far background. FMJ does seem to ricochet more than others. Depending on the kind of impact area behind the targets, and any housing that may fall within a couple miles. We had a situation on our High Power 600 yd range where individuals would put targets out at the 100, 200 , 300, etc yard mark, but there wasn't a build impact area, just the natural incline of the terrain. (we did have specific two station target butts but only on the first two targets for sighting in.) When we shoot matches we always move the line so all rounds impact the built up impact area. When the individuals put up targets at the intermediate distances so they can shoot from under the covered firing point rounds ricocheted and a neighbor that lived 1 1/2 miles away that had build a new house in line with the 600 yd range brought us a few hundred bullets that he picked up in his yard. We had to put up camera's and have large signs to "Never" put up targets in the intermediate distances and only shoot into a designated impact area.
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We also had this problem at the 100 yd range and our "auxiliary" range, which goes out to 600 yards with a bench every 100 yds. Another educating/communicating/facilitating experience to firmly stop them, and promise they would permanently forfeit their range PRIVILIGES.

Even the black powder rifle shooters lobbing their bullets could ricochet bullets over the 20 ft high berm, if they hit too far in front. It was also too easy to just lob them over the back stop. Bullets exiting the range is one very real possibility of getting us shut down, like real quick. We no longer have the long range black powder events, as it seems they are better suited to ranges where you can see the entire effective range of their bullets.

This is good reason to elevate your targets at the base of a long range berm, as people miss low and high. Setting anything at base of berm is discouraged, and reliably having adequately designed steel reactive targets to shoot at helps, in a lot of ways.
 
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Never had this problem as our range only prohibits the use of RPG's and anything else goes heck they even let you shoot tracers. Needless to say were not in a area prone to dry spells and forest fires. Even if they did I could wait till I went down to the farm and no restrictions.

A rumor I heard from some ranges was Indoor ranges and ranges that provide steel targets don't like them because of the additional wear and tear on their equipment. Some outdoor ranges don't allow them because they can strike sparks when they hit rocks and cause a fire. This could be bad in a area of dry brush and droughts. Others like mine don't care.
 
If it just comes down.....

If it just comes down to no fmj, I'd stop reloading with fmjs. I don't like them anyway.:cool:

Of course in times of shortage like the last couple of years I could be compelled to load and shoot fmj.
 
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tops said:
I can't answer for the range you use but I won't allow them on my range because of ricochets. There is a good chance that a soft point will bust up but a fmj will ricochet off and go no telling where. Larry
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This is the answer.
If you ever spend much time around machine guns, you'll see plenty of ricocheting tracers, and they're coming only every fifth round!

The ban on FMJ automatically encompasses the other stuff they don't want like steel core, SS109, tracers, AP, and incendiary. ;)
 
zeke said:
Gary-I have never seen a properly designed 25 yard steel pistol target get punctured by any commonly used pistol fmj round. What type of steel are your targets?

If people are consistently shooting rifles at 25 yard steel targets, someone might want to consider taking the targets down. This is too close even for 500 brinell.
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You have made a lot of good points Zeke, but you can not stop stupidity. The 25 yard targets are man-sized poppers on a pivot frame and much too heavy to move easily. We have only one 300 yard shooting lane for both rifle and pistol, so have the pistol targets at the far left side of the range and marked as such, but that does not stop the AR/military rifle fans from emptying a magazine or two at them.

With all the military surplus ammo out there, my guess is that the shooters do not even know if they have magnetic ammo or not, plus do not know the effects of shooting it at steel - and yes - it will zip right through 3/8" steel plate at 25 yards.

I am not supporting those ranges who ban FMJ, but pointing out that the cost of maintaining and repairing the range and targets can get costly with extensive use of FMJ. You can shoot all the lead you want at targets and they will last almost forever.
 
Non FMJ bullets don't ricochet?

Lots of guys shoot suppressed at our club and non FMJ bullets ricochet off targets, the ground... all over the place. After the bullet strikes, it tumbles and you can hear the bullet "zing" off into the distance. Of course this is at subsonic velocities and not rifle velocities.

If ricochets are indeed a safety problem at a range, isn't that an issue of design/location of the range? Pretending to shoot "ricochet safe" non FMJ bullets doesn't sound like much of a fix to me.
 
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smokindog said:
I've been trying to get a good practical answer on restricted use of FMJ bullets at outdoor rifle ranges.

It's getting very difficult to find ranges that allow the use of FMJ rifle bullets. I'd just like someone to give me a simple and easy to understand reason for these restrictions, even with earth backstops.

Sorry if this seems simple to most, it confuses the you know what out of me :)
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Question. What is beyond your backstops?

CW
 
glowe said:
You have made a lot of good points Zeke, but you can not stop stupidity. The 25 yard targets are man-sized poppers on a pivot frame and much too heavy to move easily. We have only one 300 yard shooting lane for both rifle and pistol, so have the pistol targets at the far left side of the range and marked as such, but that does not stop the AR/military rifle fans from emptying a magazine or two at them.

With all the military surplus ammo out there, my guess is that the shooters do not even know if they have magnetic ammo or not, plus do not know the effects of shooting it at steel - and yes - it will zip right through 3/8" steel plate at 25 yards.

I am not supporting those ranges who ban FMJ, but pointing out that the cost of maintaining and repairing the range and targets can get costly with extensive use of FMJ. You can shoot all the lead you want at targets and they will last almost forever.
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Posted rules are a wonderful thing, but if a general use range is designed to be destroyed down range by small caliber arms and common ammo, it will be.

I agree with you about the thoughtlessness of others. Unless a range has the manpower to inspect all ammo and range officers to monitor the activities of shooters at all times.... forget about it.

Even our private club with selective membership and cameras (no range officers) won't put anything down range in need of pampering. Folks are welcome to bring their destructible targets.
 
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