Cane guns...Help

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I would like you opinions on the legal aspects of owning a can gun. Most were made before 1900 (antiques) and by the French and English. The ammo is impossible to find.....like five dollars a bullet......if you can find it, and besides it would destroy the value.
Your thought,please,
Joe
 
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over 20 years ago my brother & I were set up at a very big KC,Mo. flea market... and a fellow came through with a pre-war/war time brown enameled Japanese diplomat's .410 cane gun chambered in 2 1/2"... We passed it up when the guy didn't mention any amnesty registration or federal paperwork...

it was in delightfully super condition and at the time neither of us thought the guy was an undercover agent... but neither of us wanted the head aches of having an unregistered Any Other Weapon even if it was an extremely rare piece.

If it had been legally papered, both of us would have tried to come up with the money to buy it. The guy never even quoted us a price...& neither my brother nor I ever touched it.
 
NFA weapon as Muss Muggins says.
From the BATF NFA Handbook:

2.1.5 Any other weapon. Firearms meeting the definition of “any other weapon” are weapons or
devices capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the
energy of an explosive. Many “any other weapons” are disguised devices such as penguns, cigarette
lighter guns, knife guns, cane guns and umbrella guns.

Many States specificly outlaw them.
Used in way too many liquor store robberys and drive-by shootings at Senior Living Centers.
 
Your comments are all appreciated...... I'm still not sure if antique guns are classified as such......Palm guns (antiques) would be in the same category,right? The ATF was five tables away, and they said nothing when my Friend's cane guns were displayed???
Thanks for all your input (As always, a very helpful forum!)
Joe
 
NFA weapon as Muss Muggins says.
From the BATF NFA Handbook:

2.1.5 Any other weapon. Firearms meeting the definition of “any other weapon” are weapons or
devices capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the
energy of an explosive. Many “any other weapons” are disguised devices such as penguns, cigarette
lighter guns, knife guns, cane guns and umbrella guns.

Many States specificly outlaw them.
Used in way too many liquor store robberys and drive-by shootings at Senior Living Centers.

You need to put a space between pen and guns. I was scratching my head there thinking how do you hide a gun in a penguin and what exactly would be the purpose???
Back in the 60's my dad came home with a pen gun (actually a tear gas pen)that would fire tear gas. The cartridge would screw into the pen and you would cock it and then let fly. I found out that it was not something to play with! :eek: how do you explain the stale smell of tear gas in the den when your dad comes home! Anyway, I digest. Apparently one could lightly file the rim of a .38 special case and screw it into the gun and fire it. I think one could do this only once. I never tried it. I think these were outlawed fairly quickly. I remember the 68 act, I was 13 at he time and the fact that my dad and his friends suddenly could not buy a lot of neat but suddenly outlawed firearms-witness the Walther PPK and a lot of tiny autos from over seas. I think that was when the tear gas pen went away-but my I wish I still had one-those cartridges were pretty awsome!!!
 
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What's it chambered for?

It's not an NFA item if it was made before 1898 and if the ammunition is not readily available through ordinary channels.The problem is determining the age and defining "readily available". I wouldn't pretend to understand their logic.

If it's a pinfire, it's OK. The has ATF already ruled that pinfire's are antiques and not subject to the GCA or NFA.

Personally, I'd want an OK from the BATFE Firearms Technology Branch (in writing) before I'd take possession.
 
If it was made prior to 1899 it would be an antique and not a "Firearm" as defined in GCA-68, and therefore not regulated. Although there were not many antique NFA machine guns made, I do not believe full auto weapons are exempt.

Of course, you would need evidence as to when it was manufactured, and also various state/local laws may consider it as being illegal regardless of its age.
 
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Tell the BATF they need to put a space betw pen and gun,,thats a direct swipe from their NFA Guide Book.
I failed English in HS so what do I know!

There were lots of disguised firearms around at one time. Cig Lighter guns were not hard to find at one time, usually 22rf single shot.
Even the somewhat common wallet holster became an AOW if possessed with the pistol it fit,, and the pistol can be fired while in the holster. It fits under a disguised firearm description.

As far as 'antique' status of NFA firearms,,again from the poor English version of the NFA Handbook:
(Remember that NFA deffinitions are slightly different than GCA deffinitions when it comes to 'firearm'
Ammunition availability is a factor as is Original mfg date. Repro cartridge copys of pre-1899 firearms do NOT qualify)

Section 2.2 Antique firearm. Firearms defined by the NFA as “antique firearms” are not subject to
any controls under the NFA.22 The NFA defines antique firearms based on their date of manufacture
and the type of ignition system used to fire a projectile. Any firearm manufactured in or before 1898
that is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed
ammunition is an antique firearm. Additionally, any firearm using a matchlock, flintlock, percussion
cap or similar type ignition system, irrespective of the actual date of manufacture of the firearm, is also
an antique firearm.
NFA firearms using fixed ammunition are antique firearms only if the weapon was actually
manufactured in or before 1898 and the ammunition for the firearm is no longer manufactured in the
United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. To qualify as an
antique firearm, a fixed cartridge firing NFA weapon must meet both the age and ammunition
availability standards of the definition.
Concerning ammunition availability, it is important to note that a specific type of fixed ammunition that
has been out of production for many years may again become available due to increasing interest in
older firearms. Therefore, the classification of a specific NFA firearm as an antique can change if
ammunition for the weapon becomes readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.


Here's a link to the entire handbook:

National Firearms Act Handbook | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
 
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Availability of ammunition is not a consideration as to whether it is an antique or not.
When it comes to NFA items, I believe ammunition availability is a factor.

Defined Under: 26 U.S.C. § 5845(G)

For the purposes of the National Firearms Act, the term “Antique Firearms” means:


Any firearm not intended or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898) and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
 
Well, How many forum members want a cane gun made before 1900 and ammunition that's almost impossible to find? They are really neat on how you screw the cane top off and use large prongs to pull out the empty casing and replace with another. Ammo made over a 100 years ago. A great conversation piece!
Your comments are great and that's what makes forum so good!
Joe
 
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