Not sure where to put this question, but here goes -

Looking for a new gun safe - already have an old school conventional rotary combination Liberty safe, but almost everything currently available has an electronic combination lock. Would really prefer old school rotary combination as I dont trust batteries. (have lost too many Mag Lights to corroded batteries)

So my question - what are current thoughts relative to electronic combinations and are there backup options if battery goes south?

Thanks, Ed

I'm with you. I'm an old school, rotary combination kind of guy.

That said, I can't believe the company wouldn't build in a back up system. It would be best to ask your preferred vendor that question and see what they come back with. I would never buy a safe without a manual combination option.

It is simple—for a competent locksmith—to pull the electronic lock and replace with a Sargent & Greenleaf mechanical lock. I have had it done to both a Liberty Fatboy and a vault door.

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No school like the old school.

I have had an electronic safe/lock for close to 10 years and would not go back to a combination lock. The battery is easily checked and/or replaced without opening the safe. And, the convenience of just entering a digital PIN and opening the safe instantly is a bonus.

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

I just got a new gun safe. It was available ONLY with an electronic lock but it does have a manual backup. I have one spare key in my other gun safe (manual lock) and my other is in my sister's gun safe at her place. I am getting used to the convenience of the push button electronic lock. (A locksmith I do business with tells me I could have the electronic lock taken out and a S&G manual lock put in, though it would not be cheap.) Got the new safe from Tractor Supply.

Cannon offers a sort of hybrid lock that can be operated rotary fashion or by touch combination. That is the kind my brother has, while mine is digital only. Oddly, I inherited a top end Fort Knox safe that has the old school rotary dial only lock, and I find it a lot more temperamental than the digital on my Cannon. Just my personal experience with just a few safes, though... YMMV.

Froggie

PS As others have said, dead batteries on the digital locks should be no problem... they are changed externally. I try to do so about once a year and have had no problem whatsoever (as long as I remember my combination! )

My Liberty has a back up key access. The electronic lock has not been a problem in over 7 years. Changed 9volt battery once. Easy to do.

I have both a rotary combination and electric. I prefer the electric lock. If the battery fails there is a back up key to open the door. When the battery gets low it will blink letting you know to change it.

Ditto ^^^^

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2 Cor 5:17
John3:16

Battery technology has improved, highly doubt you will have any corrosion

I have multiple electronic lock safes. I change batteries yearly same time as my smoke alarms. Then I put the old batteries in garage door openers and such.

I agree with Ikabug, I change the 9 V battery in my gun safe every January, and have not had any problem with it.

I have both. Two of each. Neither of my electronics have a key backup. I have seen that key backup easily picked by "experts" as in expert at using Google and coming prepared with just a LITTLE bit of practice. Tools and knowledge available online in places most of us don't even realize exists on the internet.

The big long key and keyhole greatly reduce the security if your thief is more than your typical "smash and grab for drug money" kind of thief. Luckily that ilk is 98% of the break-ins. But for someone who knows what is in there and targets it, and knows a little about locks, the key lock behind the keypad is an easy mark. That is why the mfg's attempt to hide it.

The CPU part of electronic locks is internal. The only thing external is a dumb keypad. If the keypad is broken or damaged by the aforementioned smasher and grabber, a new keypad can be attached and the old combination works.... assuming you have the wires accessible.

I use only top quality batteries, and I change them once a year. They typically test at about 80% when I remove them. I set a calendar entry on my phone and computer to remind me when, and I write the date installed on the battery before I put it in. Treat it like you should be treating your red dot optic batteries.

Both of mine are S&G electronics and the mfg STRESSES not to use cheap batteries that gradually drop voltage early as they age. They usually have recommendations on batteries on their website. Nothing fancy, just 9v batteries. Just not off brand, low cost like you buy at Christmas for the kids toys.

I have not had any issues with any other than my OLDEST small mechanical dial type which after about 35 years started getting hard to turn. Fixed with a spray of very light lubricant.

I'm not saying they are problem free, but neither are the old mechanical locks.

I will say that some of the electronic locks on some of the lower cost safes (which typically have a keyhole under them) seem to have a much higher rate of issues.

Having said all that... if I were looking for a $400 to maybe $1000 safe (in this part of the country) and really only worried about fire and Mr Smash and Grab, I would probably prefer a mechanical as well. They are harder to find because the cheap electronic units are cheaper for the mfg, and the mfg addressed the concern about reliability by giving you (and the motivated thief) a KEYHOLE to attack!

One thing to keep in mind. If you've got something a pro wants.... with proper motivation and time, you will NOT stop him, so the $5k safes give you space, but not absolute security. On the other hand, the low end, external hinge, live bolts on one side only with nothing on top or bottom, cheap lock, keyhole equipped, budget safe will ONLY stop the typical smasher and grabber.

Personally I think the sweet spot exists somewhere in the middle from most safe manufacturers.

With my own eyes, twice now, I have seen a man with one extension cord, two power tools from Walmart, and just under 5 minutes, open those like a tin can. But then, he was neither high nor hurtin' or it might have taken him 7 or 8 minutes.

Just my $.02

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BT
EGO VOLUNTAS HAUD OBEDIO

I haven't had any issues with my electronic lock in the 7 or 8 years I've had it. I do suspect that it will eventually fail, but I do have a backup key to open the safe if/when that happens. A replacement lock should be easy to fit when that time comes. It appears to just plug into a wire coming out of the safe.

Only use a new name brand battery, though. Once I put a store brand battery in it, and it refused to open the next time I tried. Thought the lock had failed, but on a hunch I replaced the new store brand battery with a new Duracell. It worked perfectly with the Duracell. I will only use either Duracell or Energizer from now on. There's a reason the store brand batteries cost so much less.

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Or something like that . . .

Unless it is a Duracell. Seriously. Just use Ray O Vac or Energizer. Duracell got a new CEO about 5-6 years ago, and their batteries turned to **** after that. They leak even when in an unopened package after a number of years, and are dead before the exp date from just sitting. I believe they make Costco's batteries too. Those things leak, and I even heard a bunch pop their seams when discharged. Took a while to figure it out. Partner's LED candles popping in the middle of the night. Leaking goo everywhere because the dead batteries sat in the candles and eventually some split.

If I get a new safe and I am looking ,
Hard to avoid the electronic lock.
But you got the Key.
I’ll store it in my old rotary combo lock safe!

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

I bought a new safe (RSC) and had the store swap out the electronic lock for a S&G dial combination lock. Not only is there a combination but you can also lock the dial from rotating with a key.

I can dial the combination in 6 seconds, yes an electronic lock is faster but for long term reliability I feel like the combo is better. When I had it installed where it is the safe movers told me don’t ever call them to have it removed.

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-Matt

My first safe was a Ft Knox with S&G dial combination. I have had it now about 30 years and have since gotten a Liberty(5-6 years ago) with dial pad. Didn't really want the dial pad lock because I liked the rotary combination locks but what I have learned is that as you get older the eyes start to fade. Now I have to use readers and a light to open the dial lock but the keypad is no such problem. Something to keep in mind.

Last year I bought my first electronic keypad safe. It’s a Liberty Colonial. As it was coming up on 1 year, I changed the battery. After the change, the backlit portion of the pad stopped working. There was no issue with unlocking the safe.
I gave Liberty a call. They sent me a new keypad. It was a simple remove the old, and plug in the new. All is good.
I’m with the the above poster, eyes are too old to spin the dial.

I would wonder if, after many years of use, would the key pad show enough signs of wear, and facilitate the smart kids in opening dad's safe.....?

J.

Last summer I had a set of electronic hearing protectors ruined by leaking Duracell batteries. Then I had a low primer sensor on one of my Dillon 550s trashed the same way. I was out in the shop this afternoon powder coating bullets. While they were in the oven I decided to remove the battery from a two month old Chinese knock off ACOG that I put on my AR22. (This is still a $400 sight). I had unexpected difficulty removing the cap from the battery compartment. After getting it loose with a pair of pliers I saw why. The fresh Duracell Optimum AA that I had installed as a temporary had leaked in the sight and made one hell of a mess.

I had already sworn off Duracell and gone to Energizer after the hearing protector and the primer sensor were ruined. My wife came home from Sam's one day with a 4 pack of the Optimum AA's and said they were free. You paid for them at checkout and the cost was deducted from the total. I figured it would not hurt to use one for a short time to get the rifle sighted in and then swap it out. I was wrong. I will not only never buy Duracell again, I will never use them if someone gives them to me.

I forget who the safe guy is on the forum, but he’s addressed those backup key access locks in the past by stating that you don’t have a safe, you have a locker . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

EXACTLY ! !

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BT
EGO VOLUNTAS HAUD OBEDIO

Years ago I bought an LED lamp assembly that mirrors the round top of the dial combo lock assembly. It has a magnet on the back to attach to the safe door. Walk up and push the button and the light shines on the combo numbers at the 12 o'clock position. Works pretty good.

My first safe was purchased new over forty years ago.
About a year ago I started to get concerned over the resistance the dial was exhibiting.

I had some communications with a gentleman here on the board and he instructed me on doing maintenance on the lock set.

My life's work has been taking things apart and repairing 'things'.

But, I was feeling a bit of trepidation over tackling this.

I really knew I could do it... But, one failure and you know the rest.

So, I called a local locksmith. He was referred to me by someone that enlisted their services frequently.

Best money ever spent.

I emptied everything out before he arrived.

He got in there and accessed the internals. There were very small particulates of metal in the bottom of the lock enclosure. I knew there would be. I could feel it working the combo.

He dusted and cleaned out the tumblers and applied the proper lubricants.

I test drove the opening and closing and anything I could do to generate a hiccup in the action.

It turned out absolutely wonderful.
Smooth as silk. Just the way it was over 40 years ago.

I can't recall, off the top of my head, what the actual cost was. I believe it was around $125.00 for his complete service.

Money well spent. I would not hesitate to do it again and pay that price for the insurance he afforded me.

That is my experience.
I personally would not buy a safe with a digital keypad.
I have to go with what I know.

bdGreen

If you have any safe that uses a barrel (tubular) key as a back-up entry mechanism, that point is the weak link in your security. I watched ONE YouTube video, bought a set of three tubular lock picks on eBay for $25, and went around my house and opened EVERY barrel-type lock I owned - including the ignition on my Harley!

Regardless, I have no easy solution to this issue. Frankly if you believe ANY keyed lock is secure then you don't want to watch the videos from "The Lockpicking Lawyer"!

Agree, I have been using Duracell Procell batteries for years. Lately I have had batteries leaking, AA, and still measured 1.455 volts, far from dead. I called Duracell and they sent me a coupon for 20 bucks toward their batteries. Disclaimer, I used the coupon.

You can still get a Liberty safe with dial lock, at least on their entry level Centurion line.

My KODIAK safe came with the battery powered lock and an option to upgrade to a nice S and G old school rotary dial lock.

I think you can convert about any safe to whichever lock you prefer.

My safe is 14 years old. I don't see any discernable wear on the key pad.

Cheaper to send out those coupons to the few that complain than to make the batteries the way they used to.

I bought a Fort Knox safe with an S&G dial lock almost 35 years ago. I accessed that safe every work day twice a day for almost 20 years and the combo dial started to develop slop that would result in the combo not working properly and it kept getting progressively worse.

When I moved I bought 3 additional vaults and when the dealer was delivering those electronic combo vaults I mentioned to him about the problems I was having with the S&G combo lock. He took one look at the guts and told me the mechanism was seriously loose and it was a good thing we caught it when we did or it could have been an expensive access and repair job. Moral of the story, even dial combo locks require maintenance by someone who knows what they are doing.

For those that don’t know me, I’m a professional locksmith of close to 29 years. I currently work for the DOD.

We use the most expensive digital safe locks available. And they fail. I’ve seen it hundreds of times.

I would only buy a rotary lock and ask the sales person to convert it. I wouldn’t pay much to do this because rotary locks cost less. But then there’s labor which shouldn’t cost much if anything at all.

Digital locks are much more convenient but unreliable. And gun safes are not designed for quick access.

I recommend Liberty.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

i have done the same, good u tube step by step.
Tom B.

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frontsightnsqueaz

I personally would only buy a conventional dial safe - but that's just me. I simply don't trust the electronic ones. I know a few guys that have had multiple problems with electronic locks and have had to replace them after much aggravation. For the few times a week most people might open it - I see no big deal about dialing a few numbers.

Hey, I still have some dial telephones in my house.

To the OP: in my time here I have come to believe that Kanewpadle is the premier authority on all things lockable.

Get to know him.

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

I should add that any safe that has a key override in case of battery failure is not nearly as secure. The key override is a major weakness that can be easily bypassed.

People say that gun safes are not safes but residential security containers. This is incorrect. Residential security container is a safe classification.

People also say that if they really want to get in, they will. This is true. I have yet to come upon a lock that can resist power tools. But don’t make it easy. Thieves don’t usually bring power tools and safe moving equipment with them.

Harden the perimeter doors of your home. Bolt down the safe.

Consider the fire rating of the safe. The longer the fire dept response the higher the rating you need.

Keep the safe in an area where the temperature is constant. The frequent rise and fall of ambient temperature is not good. Mine is in the garage which is not heated.

Keep in mind that in the event of fire, the fire dept will hose down your house. This causes a lot of condensation. The fire seal on the safe door will expand when exposed to heat and contract when cools. This allows condensation to form inside the safe. Use gun socks. Dehumidifiers are great but not when there’s no power. I use both.

Have the safe delivered and installed. They have the equipment as well as liability insurance.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

I have a conventional combination lock on my Liberty. I don't like the electronic locks for one reason . . . electro magnetic pulse.

The recent winter weather, especially as it impacted Texas, shows how vulnerable our electrical grid is and an EMP would be an cheap and easy way for enemies, foreign and domestic, to take out the grid. I don't think electronic safe locks would fair well pursuant to an EMP event.

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Live long and prosper

Do they still work?

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Live long and prosper

I've got 13 phones and 5 of them are dial phones. You would be shocked just how much younger people fumble to dial one - and many of the kids are blown away when I give them a 1905 Candle Stick phone to answer a call with - still works!

The two single best tone quality comes from two of the Western Electric 1950's - 1960's cradle phones.

My Liberty has the electronic lock and I'm happy with it. I change the battery every fall. Changing the battery on a regular basis will save a lot of problems with electronic locks and most other electronic items.

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"In God We Trust"

I had been looking at getting a safe for several years. I was the Tulsa gun show and talking to a salesman. I told him I wasn't buying anything being so far out of town but wanted to know the ins and outs of safes. He had been selling them for over 30 years. When we got to locking mechanism he went through the seemingly endless list of different levels of locking systems. Almost every maker, i.e Schagel has/had levels of quality. When impressed him about manual vs electronic, he said there are two types of electronic locks, those that have failed and those that are looking to fail. Kind of surprised me. I really envy the speed of the electronic but have heard stories of those who have had them fail. That said, my guess is that has changed with some newer technology.

It hasn’t changed. Safe locks are either solenoid or motor driven. Mostly solenoid. Anything electronic has a limited life span. Battery life has no bearing on how long the lock will last. It’s only a matter of time as to when the lock fails. And it will.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

They still work. I just checked and Snoopy still gets a dial tone.

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On another forum I visit a lady said she had a crank telephone in her house. I asked her if it was for receiving crank calls.