one eye joe
US Veteran
Welcome home, brother. Loved those Chinooks......
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VN helicopter pilot's gun???
- Thread starter Retired W4
- Start date
CH47gunner
US Veteran
Thanks Joe, Welcome Home to you also.
Glad to hear that you "loved them Chinooks" - many times we (aircrew) wondered just exactly what you guys were thinking about when we were coming into a small firebase where the perimeter wire & landing pad was so close to the edge of the berm.
With a load internal & another load on the hook we were generating 200+ knots of rotor-blast. Many times when we came in to drop loads the rotor-blast would blow away the perimeter wire, tents, crappers, and any other assundry semi-portable item left laying around. And in the dry season, a HUGE cloud of red dust!
Many rude gestures were often exchanged.
Hookers forever!
Bruce
Glad to hear that you "loved them Chinooks" - many times we (aircrew) wondered just exactly what you guys were thinking about when we were coming into a small firebase where the perimeter wire & landing pad was so close to the edge of the berm.
With a load internal & another load on the hook we were generating 200+ knots of rotor-blast. Many times when we came in to drop loads the rotor-blast would blow away the perimeter wire, tents, crappers, and any other assundry semi-portable item left laying around. And in the dry season, a HUGE cloud of red dust!
Many rude gestures were often exchanged.
Hookers forever!
Bruce
one eye joe
US Veteran
LMAO, Bruce. Dudes should learn to secure their hootch better. A coupla 60' rotors create a helluva breeze. The mere sound of a chopper on it's way in, usually put a smile on the face of those of us on the ground.......
Thank you for your service, Chief and a great story. When grunts started smilin' means Hueys inbound or the F-4's were in the neighborhood.
OP
Great story as well, Bruce. Have you been able to get all that hydraulic fluid off you after all these years? I have so much respect for you guys in the back. We would not have made it, in so many cases without your vigilance, and valor, not to mention the skill with that M-60 on a platform that never stopped moving. Most people don't understand what it takes to hit a target from a helicopter. I know a lot of our shooting was suppressive fire, but I remember many times when the guys in the back had to make it count!
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I also flew in Vietnam as a crew chief/door gunner with the 173rd Assault Helicopter Company out of Lai khe, I stayed 32 months on flight status and flew over 800 sortie missions.
In answer to the question, "what did helicopter pilots do after the war" most of the Army aviators who held Warrants came home and resumed their careers, many of them finding employent with their former crew chiefs who took pity on them
Most of the Commissioned pilots, of course, came to bad endings when they realized that they no longer had a Warrant officer to actually fly the helicopter for them and also no longer had a crew chief to explain to them what the terms in the -10 actually meant.
Retired W4, I had the privledge of being the friend of the greatest 187th AHC pilot in Vietnam, Major Ron Timberlake and also attending his internment at Arlington after his sudden death in 1999. If you or any of the other aircrew would like copies of your unit's yearly historical summaries, i have digital copies on line at the Vietnam Virtual Archive at Texas Tech University in the "Bud Harton" collection and I have also provided copies to the VHPA and their webmaster, Gary Roush and they can be read online at the VHPA website.
CW2 Bruce Peters, "Crossbow 33" who was my aircraft commander for eighteen months in VN once told me, "it was the best all of us ever were".
I lost him two years ago and I never had a chance to tell him how right he was.
In answer to the question, "what did helicopter pilots do after the war" most of the Army aviators who held Warrants came home and resumed their careers, many of them finding employent with their former crew chiefs who took pity on them
Most of the Commissioned pilots, of course, came to bad endings when they realized that they no longer had a Warrant officer to actually fly the helicopter for them and also no longer had a crew chief to explain to them what the terms in the -10 actually meant.
Retired W4, I had the privledge of being the friend of the greatest 187th AHC pilot in Vietnam, Major Ron Timberlake and also attending his internment at Arlington after his sudden death in 1999. If you or any of the other aircrew would like copies of your unit's yearly historical summaries, i have digital copies on line at the Vietnam Virtual Archive at Texas Tech University in the "Bud Harton" collection and I have also provided copies to the VHPA and their webmaster, Gary Roush and they can be read online at the VHPA website.
CW2 Bruce Peters, "Crossbow 33" who was my aircraft commander for eighteen months in VN once told me, "it was the best all of us ever were".
I lost him two years ago and I never had a chance to tell him how right he was.
hueytaxi
Member
That landing pad was known as "
Red Carpet" to the pilots. I flew Oh-58's out of Phu Loi and was assigned to the Dep. Dir. of II FF Arty as his personal pilot so I was in and out of Red Carpet regularly. I carried a Colt Diamondback which many mistook for a Python. I wonder if you and I had run across each other. My issue revolver was stored with a myriad of weapons back at Phu Loi. I also carriied a M-79 between the seats and a M2 carbine cut down to the basics. I had tried to carry a M3 grease gun and later a Thompson, but could not fire them one handed out of my door (plus they were enormously heavy). I took the Diamond back into country because on my first tour it was two weeks before I was issued a worn out 1911. Since I didn't fire one in basic, I had to qualify with it. The only way was to carefully aim at the target which assured a miss and then punch holes in it with a pen. I only carried 20 rounds when I went knowing .38 would be prevalent.
And so I am new here and most likely will post seldom. But this was interesting.....thank you guys.
Roger
DWFAN
US Veteran
BudMan5, when were you in Lai Khe? I was with the 168th Combat Engineers and we built that nice little air strip out there, roads, buildings. Probably even your showers. One of my many jobs was delivering water for all the showers on base. Mostly a dozer operator. Remember a time when we went out with C Company 1st Infantry which was also there, to clear a mine field out side of Bao Bang, spelling?, and one of your choppers med vacked me out after my dozer got taken out with an anti tank mine. Sure did appreciate you guys being there. '65-'66.
DW
DW
one eye joe
US Veteran
That very well may have been you, Roger. I NEVER saw another. This came before I owned a Python or Diamondback myself, so I could have easily mistaken one for the other with just a quick glance. I never knew what that chopper pad was called--never flew outta there myself. It's a small world, brother. Welcome home........
OP
This is a picture of my Door Gunner from the 190th AHC taken outide a 5th SF TOC. Notice he is wearing an 18th ENG Bde. patch on his right shoulder. Before he became a Door Gunner for us, he spent a year running an M-60 mounted on a jeep for convoy cover, mostly on Thunder Road (Hwy 13). Harmon was the best man I've ever seen on an M-60. He also kepted my .38 tuned up like a swiss watch. He is sitting in what I think is the remainder of an O-2. Can't tell what side arm he is wearing, but he always had a handgun and a couple M-16's (one for me).
Attachments
We arrived at Lai Khe in January 1966 and our revetments lined the entire length of the active runway. Here's our slicks turning final into a pickup zone (the door guns are down)
One of my very few claims to fame was i was there when a member of my unit unit earned the Medal of Honor. Specialist Gart Wetzel extended his tour as a truck driver in a transportation company to transfer to our unit as a door gunner. On January 8, 1968, we went into a landing zone near Tan Tru, south of Saigon and were ambushed by an NVA unit in a horse shoe shapped ambush. Wetzel was in the lead aircraft on the left side when an RPG came through the cockpit chin bubble just as they were flaring to land. The RPG killed the aircraft commander and took weyzel's arm off. After the crash, he continued to man his door gun while using a rifle sling as a tourniquit on the his left forearm.
one eye joe
US Veteran
Welcome home, brother. Thanks for your service, and God bless Gart Wetzel--a true hero........
OP
We arrived at Lai Khe in January 1966 and our revetments lined the entire length of the active runway. Here's our slicks turning final into a pickup zone (the door guns are down)
Nice formation. Images just like that are etched into my brain forever.
austintexas
SWCA Member
One way to tell if a M-10 was issued by the military is they are usually marked with a small p above the trigger guard on the left side. I have a 10-5 I picked up cheap at a pawn shop for trade bait and when I cleaned it up I noticed the p. The p is and acceptance stamp put on by the military. If you have a Victory model ( WWII ) you could usually see the p on the bottom of the grip.
SWCA 892
SWCA 892
jaysouth
US Veteran
Your experience is a rare one. Pilots of all services were issued revolvers because a revolver could be put into action with only one hand. With a 1911, one needed two hands to chamber a round and put it into action. Yes, regulations specifically prohibit carrying the weapon with a round chambered and it was an offense to do so. Everyone, aviators and ground pounders, were loath to carry the 1911 because the ones issued were so clapped out and unreliable.
Army regulations specifically prohibited taking a personal weapon to VN. A lot did, but it was prohibited and an offense to do so. Officers who fly helicopters are usually a regulation abiding lot. There was no need because the army would issue them a 4" M-10.
wwwwhhhhaaaaaatttttt?????????????
I have flown with HUNDREDS of Army Helicopter pilots and all of them followed regulations up to a point. I carried a wehrmacht marked nickle plated P35, many of my pilots carried Smith and Colt 357s all of us carried a variert=ty of liberated (stolen is an ugly word) long guns with the Swedish K being at the top of the cool list but M2 carbines, Ithaca 37 dshotguns, every ship had an M79 (none were authorized on the Aviation Company (Airmobile) TO&E). WE mounted miniguns as door guns, tried a 20mm belt fed gun slung between the skids (very bad idea) and made up our own ordnance using C4 ammo cans and whatever we could stuff in it. We used C4 to cook our C-rats and passed the time on strip alert making minature rockets out of upended cartridge cases on ramps and fueled by gun powder and an itty bitty piece of C4.
The door gunners normally fired 500 round "bursts" and fired off the melting and white hot M60 barrel 'down range' by flipping the barrel locking lever up and firing a round.
The average age of the four man Huey gunship was 20 years old, and we knew we had access to unlimited ammo, unrestricted firing firing ranges and if we broke our quarter million dollar helicopter we knew they would give us a new one.
I have heard the most terrifying sound ever heard by man and it has been vocalized by any Army Warrant Officer aircraft commander when he says over the intercom, "Watch this!!"
Regulation abiding? Army helicopter pilots? yeah, right, but only when a Real Live Officer (RLO) is looking.
This is me forty years ago and 100 pounds lighter:
Bud and Jim.wmv - YouTube
one eye joe
US Veteran
Hey Bud, I LOVED your post, your pic, and your video. It was my experience that regulations were generally ignored when troops in the field had discovered a better way to protect themselves and/or accomplish their mission. A General @ MACV Headquarters wrote regs from his desk that often made the troops in the field's task of stayin' alive more difficult. Since it was our a$$ on the line in indian country, we did what we felt we needed to do..........
Make no mistake about how I feel about Army Aviators. They made history in Vietnam and they set the standard for generations of Army pilots after them.
They always, no matter what the risk, were willing to "go" if someone called for help.
They always, no matter what the risk, were willing to "go" if someone called for help.
