45 ACP hollow point bullet, need advice.

LostintheOzone · Jun 23, 2014

I'm going to load some defensive ammo to be used in my 1911 or my 625. I'm looking at 230 gr. Hornady XTP jacketed hollow points. Is this a good defensive bullet? Is there anything else out there that would be better? So far I've only loaded lead and know very little about jacketed bullets.

Any help would be appreciated.

schmeg · Jun 23, 2014

Do yourself a huge legal favor and only use factory assembled ammo for self defense. If in the unfortunate circumstance you need to employ your self defense ammo against a perpetrator, a public prosecutor will have a field day with your reloads in a court and a liberal minded jury/judge. Yes, Hornaday HP's work real good. Especially when used in their critical defense loads. Use your reloads for the range/hunting etc. Just sayin. Jay.

LostintheOzone · Jun 23, 2014

That makes sense. I never thought about it, one question however. Those seem to be popular bullets. Are people using those for the range?

M&PUSER · Jun 23, 2014

XTPs for the range? Yep! If you don't, you won't know whether or not your pistol likes them. Stick with commercial for Self Defense.

colt_saa · Jun 23, 2014

The Hornady XTP is an exceptional projectile

Most any of the top 4 or 5 projectiles will serve you well. I am also quite fond of the Winchester 230JHP as well as the Gold Dot. The Golden Saber is a bit longer than I like.

You would be hard pressed to see any measurable difference between these when loaded to the same specifications.

Neumann · Jun 23, 2014

Hornady XTP are very good. If you can find them, Speer Gold Dot are an excellent alternative with a more rounded ogive for better feeding. The maximum OAL is less for an hollow point than for FMJ bullets. I load XTPs to an OAL of 1.230" (FMJ to 1.260"), otherwise they may lodge in the rifling if the throat is short (e.g., Kahr PM45 and Springfield XDs). A "plunk" test with a dismounted barrel should pass if the bullet doesn't stick, even a little, if pressed into the chamber with your thumb.

Prosecutors or the plaintiff's lawyers in a civil suit can try anything, but a good defense lawyer could easily dismiss allegations that your handloads were especially deadly. Commercial SD ammunition is loaded much hotter than most would dare when hand loading. Police carry hollow points to minimize the chance of over penetration, not necessarily because they are more deadly.

Commercial ammunition is preferred for self defense because it performs better and is arguably more reliable.

colt_saa · Jun 23, 2014

schmeg said:
Do yourself a huge legal favor and only use factory assembled ammo for self defense. If in the unfortunate circumstance you need to employ your self defense ammo against a perpetrator, a public prosecutor will have a field day with your reloads in a court and a liberal minded jury/judge.

Just sayin. Jay.

Would you be kind enough to point out just one time when this happened since Concealed Carry has become so common. A link to the news article would be great.

Don't tell us so and so told you not to do it or you heard about it at the water cooler or you heard that your cousins, friends, brothers coworker had this happen to him, don't say some writer mentioned a case he heard about in tiny town USA in the 70s, show us an article. Just one article. Give us a link to the court case.

Urban Legend

Doubless · Jun 23, 2014

Colt SAA, you can call it an urban legend all you want, but if memory serves, no less an authority than Massad Ayoob himself recommended using factory stuff in your SD piece. And he oughta know...

And do you remember the drunk teenager that was shot in Louisiana years ago with the only handgun the home owner had? It was a 44Magnum, and the prosecution team sliced and diced the homeowner for using too much handgun.

smokindog · Jun 23, 2014

Its been awhile and I'm pretty new here

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/183812-reloads-law.html

colt_saa · Jun 24, 2014

Doubless said:
Colt SAA, you can call it an urban legend all you want, but if memory serves, no less an authority than Massad Ayoob himself recommended using factory stuff in your SD piece. And he oughta know...

Why should he know?

Has he been prosecuted for using handloads in a shooting? NO

Has he been involved in a case of someone being prosecuted for using handloads in a shooting? NO

His article proposing this behavior references a couple of cases he heard about back in the 70s. Personally, I need something more concrete than that

Show us something that has happened since the 10s of millions of Law Abiding US Citizens began carrying under the Shall Issue permit laws that began in 1987.

Doubless, step up to the plate and point us to just a single case in the last few decades.

Rule3 · Jun 24, 2014

smokindog said:
Its been awhile and I'm pretty new here

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/183812-reloads-law.html

Yep, must have been a month or so so it's time for this ageless topic to come up again. I am making popcorn and gonna read up on the best loads for Bear defense.

In 45 ACP they are all good, Problem is finding projectiles.

Even plain old Ball ammo has done it's share of damage over the years.

The factory vs handloads discussion is a bunch of nonsense and never seems to go away.

Doubless · Jun 24, 2014

colt_saa said:
Why should he know?

Has he been prosecuted for using handloads in a shooting? NO

Has he been involved in a case of someone being prosecuted for using handloads in a shooting? NO

His article proposing this behavior references a couple of cases he heard about back in the 70s. Personally, I need something more concrete than that

Show us something that has happened since the 10s of millions of Law Abiding US Citizens began carrying under the Shall Issue permit laws that began in 1987.

Doubless, step up to the plate and point us to just a single case in the last few decades.

What's the matter? Google not work for you? It took me less than ten seconds to find a statement from Ayoob where he says he hopes his article refutes the Urban Legend of "nobody ever getting into trouble in court for using handloads for self defense". Go find it yourself. I am not your "hey boy".

And you are just as wrong as you can be about him never being involved with a court case involving handloads. You don't know what you are talking about.

You might want to read about how Mr. Ayoob got to be the recognized authority he is. And, I might add, he posts from time to time on this forum...

Meanwhile, you might wish to read this: it doesn't state that anyone will go to prison over the use of handloads for SD, but it darned sure makes me think about "what if"... and to me, it just ain't worth the risk.

Handloaded Ammunition: Not a Good Idea for Concealed Carry/Self Defense

ArchAngelCD · Jun 24, 2014

The Hornady XTP/HP bullet is extremely accurate in most cases but it's known to be a very tough bullet which works well for hunting ammo. It's also sold as a SD round and I'm sure it expands well as long as you generate the required velocities.

Speer Gold Dot bullets are a good choice and especially their short barrel bullets. Remington Golden Saber bullets have also been around for a long time but they are older technology than the Gold Dot bullets. I happen to like the Winchester Silvertip bullets but they are extremely difficult to find anywhere. They are also older Tech but IMO are still a very good choice.

If you can find them I would buy Speer Gold Dot bullets but if you can't find them the Hornady XTP/HP bullets are a good choice too. (keep the velocities up where they are recommended)

rwsmith · Jun 24, 2014

The XTP

The XTP is a great bullet. Gold Dots are highly recommended. I'm not worried about the handload/legal issue.

fredj338 · Jun 24, 2014

The xtp is a good Std cup/core bullet. They lays expand, just not to the degree some of the premium stuff, not available to the hand loader. Bullets like te HST, qute a bit better IMO, so why handloading a "lesser" bullet?

rg1 · Jun 24, 2014

The Hornady 230 XTP is a good bullet for your purpose. I load them for 1911's, Sig 220, and a Glock 21 all with the same loading components. I use AA#5 powder and Unique works well too. There are several good powders for 230 gr. 45ACP loads. I load them to an oal of 1.230" also. They feed fine in all my 45's and magazines. Other good 230gr. bullets often recommended are Speer Gold Dots and I've reloaded Remington 230 BJHP Golden Sabers. The Golden Sabers are very accurate in my pistols. The GS bullets are hard to find today and the Hornady XTP's have been scarce. My only concerns are that it goes bang when I pull a trigger and I actually feel more confident in ammo I load.

perrazi · Jun 24, 2014

if you shoot someone, self defense or no, the least of your problems are what ammo you used.

Forrest r · Jun 24, 2014

A slow motion video of the 230g xtp bullet in gell.

Discussion on Simulated Shot Lines - YouTube

smutt · Jun 24, 2014

Self defense ammo, find out what your local sheriff uses and go with that.

David R · Jun 24, 2014

I bought a new Auto ordinance 45 in 1987. I also bought a box of Federal 185 JHP to carry. One time when firing the gun with those Federals, the bullet pushed back into the case, the case split and tied up the gun. NO bang and a bitch of a jam to clear. I carry my own reloads.

I prefer SWC to HP. They feed fine and will do plenty of damage, more than ball.

David

45 ACP hollow point bullet, need advice.

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