The Knife for When You Can't Carry a Gun

Guys I just bought what many knife experts consider to be possibly one of the most effective defensive blades ever devised. That would be the legendary Spyderco Civilian:



Civilian™ G-10 Black - Spyderco, Inc.

This is a very storied knife with quite the reputation. In the early '90s it was designed at the request of DEA agents who wanted the most effective defensive knife possible in situations where carrying a gun was not feasible. The agents were not formally trained in knife fighting so the design had to be able to be effective even in relatively untrained hands. The Spyderco Civilian was the result and it has since gained an almost cult status.

The knife is designed for one thing: defense. In fact, the blade is so extremely sharp, thin and tapered, that the tip has a reputation for breaking if the knife is used for daily cutting. In fact, Spyderco even includes a tag packaged with the knife saying to not use it for utility work. I don't mean to be crude here but the blade was made for cutting the flesh of human bodies as effectively as possible, not as an everyday work knife. The needle-like blade is necessary to do this with the utmost efficiency.

I have to say, it is an extremely impressive implement. It is designed for devastating ripping cuts to disable an attacker by physically destroying the blood vessels, nerves, and tendons. It isn't so much meant for stabbing, but to deliver a great deal of painful and crippling trauma to limbs etc. and quickly "hit and run" as it were.

I should explain that I purchased this knife to carry in locations where it is legal and when I don't have access to firearms. I travel a great deal for my job and find myself on installations that bar any kind of firearms but with no prohibitions on knives. Right now I am in Texas and this knife is riding in my pocket as I type this. Due to its blade length, the knife is illegal for carry in some jurisdictions.

Also, I fully know well any knife is a poor replacement for a handgun and that running away from an attack is the smartest thing to do. But, when cornered with no other option for defense, it certainly beats harsh words. It is a psychologically fearsome weapon and can deliver telling performance and violence to the human body if it is needed, yet carries very easily and is much handier and discrete over larger non-firearm weapons. Pepper spray and tasers are possibly better still, but those too are barred in settings that I frequent.

For anyone interested here are some articles on this knife for more information:

The Spyderco Civilian Family

Not your Daddy’s Lock Back: Spyderco Civilian | The Loadout Room

Take care!

-Jay

I have carried a civilian ever since they were introduced. It is not the knife I use to open boxes. I have several decades of Phillipino and Indonesian martial arts behind me, and the kerambit style blade of the civilian lends itself very well to the flow drills that these disciplines teach.
It is wicked sharp, thin and with that fully serrated blade delivers devastating cuts. You have equipped yourself with a great edged weapon.

Nice knife. I carry a Spyderco Endura every day along with a Leatherman Juice S2 that handles all the everyday cutting tasks. The Endura stays sharp as a last option in a self defense situation.

I believe that knives enjoy a psychological edge over firearms in the sense that almost everyone knows what it feels like to be cut. Very few have been shot.

Your post is a good one and your rational well reasoned.

Sure looks nasty. Sure would do the trick on an attacker I would imagine. Been carrying a spring assist Sog Trident tanto for an EDC but yours looks dynamite for defense.

Collects said:

WOW, what a knife!

And the price tag is another WOW and a half: $309.95 MSRP!

Jay Framer, you are a bad influence. Now, I have to go out and buy a Spyderco.

It appears that the Spyderco Matriarch 2 has all of the important features of the Civilian (please correct me if I am wrong), but it only costs about $100, and it has a tab that automatically opens the knife upon removing it from the pocket.

Amazon.com: Spyderco C12SBBK2W Matriarch 2 Folding Knife with Emerson Opener, Black, 3.57-Inch: Sports & Outdoors

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The Matriarch looks really awesome too! The Emerson wave feature (the tab you are talking about) looks super useful. A Delica 4 Wave is another Spyderco on the short list for me. Also I paid far less than MSRP for my Civilian, most places it is running at or a bit below $200.

Spyderco has MAP pricing. all the places I checked gave the same price on the Civilian, $201.47.

For that money it should have good steel I would imagine. Have heard very positive reviews concerning Spyderco knives over the years. Recently started a meager collection myself. So many choices even for EDCs it can be mind boggling. Sure are many different steels to choose from.

I carry a Cold Steel Ti-Lite VI.



It's basically a modern take on the classic Stiletto "Switchblade" design, except that it's not a spring-assisted knife.
They come in a variety of configurations, but mine is one of the cheaper models with a 6" AUS-8A Stainless Steel blade and Zytel handle.

Fair warning, I didn't read all the posts before posting. I just read the title and the OP.

I don't understand the concept of "The Knife for When You Can't Carry a Gun."

Every where that I've been that carrying a gun was not going to work for those who have a little more trouble than me carrying a gun around are in no way going to be able to get that knife through the front door either . . .

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.

Assuming you are not DEA, or a spec ops guy, having a specialty knife who's only real purpose is cutting human flesh, may not be a great appearance/lawyer friendly in the event you ever did need to use it for self defense. Then there's the problem of having to carry a second knife that can do the everyday chores. FOR ME I'd probly eventually use it for a non human flesh task & break it. Wouldn't another spyderco with a serrated thicker blade be more all around useful & NOT PROJECT the looking to kill image, yet still be an effective S/D weapon? LOOKING BAD, it does indeed. If you want to be rid of it, put me in for the Karma.

If one carries a knife, they best be trained in how to use it. Simply possessing an expensive knife doesn't make one a knife fighter - unless it's just for show.

It's nice knife, though!

This video has some interesting applications for the Spyderco Civilian. You may enjoy watching it. The good stuff starts around minute 5.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNhBViIJmkg[/ame]

Mine knife with or without a gun is the Zero Tolerance 350. It recently replaced my lost Buck Crosslock. Very happy with the ZT 350!

It reminds me of the Spyderco with a down - curved blade that Dr. Hannibal Lecter carried in one of Thomas Harris's books. I think the idea was for the insane shrink to use it to sever the big leg artery. Femoral? It can also probably hamstring someone easily.

But Lecter's knife would bee more rugged and he could tell a nosy cop that he used it to cut carpet or a seatbelt or some such excuse.

I have knives that I carry in that role, but none are fragile or so limited in scope. A top choice is my Benchmade Model 710, on my belt now. A Tramontina machete with an 18 inch blade is by my computer. THAT will remove a limb or split a skull! It's by a S&W M-66-3 .357 that'd be used before the knife, if I had time to unzip the gun case. The machete can be raised as I peel the sheath off the VERY sharp blade and be in action sooner.

If I have to kill a centipede or snake, the machete can do that without risk of a bullet penetrating a wall and hitting a neighbor. Thankfully, I'm unlikely to have either beast in my home, but it could theoretically happen. Or a mouse might need killing.

My son once stepped very quickly on a copperhead snake's neck and he drew his Benchmade knife with a tanto point and cut the head off with the knife. He said the one-hand opening was a real plus.

A kitchen cabinet holds a Fallkniven NL-2, a sort of Bowie knife with a Randallesque leather handle.

And another location in my home has a Buck Model 120, in case I can't get to a gun as someone breaks in.

By the time I was 12 years old, I'd read Col. Rex Applegate's, Kill or Get Killed, and I had a pretty fair basic idea of how to kill with a knife. I owned a Fairbairn-Sykes commando knife by then. (In 1979, I lunched with Rex and told him I'd initially read his book in a WW II edition that my father bought in 1944. He laughed and said that he'd certainly looked thinner in the pictures then.)

I was amazed that I was the only man in my flight (platoon) of Air Police who bought a good combat knife at a time when any of us could expect orders for Vietnam.

I don't know what Jay does in the AF, but he seems to get around. I'd want a knife less specialized and evil looking. I use a Swiss Army knife for most tool knife uses. As a survival knife if a plane went down, that thin Spyderco is too fragile.

If I want an innocent-looking knife that can handle defense work, I have a Victorinox Hunter. The blade locks, and it's bigger than most SAK's. And it has an effective saw blade and other tools.

It would be fascinating to read some first-hand real life accounts from members who have actually used a knife in self-defense. Anybody got one?

nachogrande said:

Assuming you are not DEA, or a spec ops guy, having a specialty knife who's only real purpose is cutting human flesh, may not be a great appearance/lawyer friendly in the event you ever did need to use it for self defense. Then there's the problem of having to carry a second knife that can do the everyday chores. FOR ME I'd probly eventually use it for a non human flesh task & break it. Wouldn't another spyderco with a serrated thicker blade be more all around useful & NOT PROJECT the looking to kill image, yet still be an effective S/D weapon? LOOKING BAD, it does indeed. If you want to be rid of it, put me in for the Karma.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again, as long as a prosecutor thinks he can build a case against you by painting you as a homicidal maniac, he'll try to do so regardless of what you're carrying, so there's really no sense in trying to carry weapons just because they seem less easy to vilify, you're only limiting your options.
Besides, there's absolutely no sense at all in worrying about the aftermath of a potential life or death situation in which lethal force is necessary to preserve one's life, and especially not the lives of others. It's just a recipe for disaster which will inevitably result in hesitation to act which could have lethal consequences.

Weapons are designed with the purpose of killing in mind, ergo the use of ANY weapon can potentially be used as evidence of homicidal tendencies when used for their intended purpose. So regardless of whether you use a combat knife or a multi-purpose knife in self-defense, if the prosecutor has a mind to do so, he'll try to paint it as though you were the bad guy regardless.
Heck, even if you went out of your way to try to avoid being prosecuted for carrying a weapon to the point of carrying a tool which could easily be used as an improvised weapon like a screwdriver or something, if anything, that could be potentially painted in an even worse light. Just sayin, "murder by screwdriver" sounds far more savage/brutal than "murder by knife" and thus could very easily come off worse than any actual weapon.

Which knife to carry when you can't carry a gun?? Uh...take your pick.

Marshwheeling said:

It would be fascinating to read some first-hand real life accounts from members who have actually used a knife in self-defense. Anybody got one?

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Just opening a lockblade knife once in a practiced manner brought three punks skidding to a halt, but that's all I dare say here, or I'll get a ding from a mod. I'm sure a full account would violate a Rule. The knife was/is a Henckels German hunting knife with a spear-shaped main blade, a secondary saw blade, and a corkscrew. Blade length is four inches. Handle scales are nice stag antler. I've had the knife since 1963.

I'm quite sure that had I not drawn that knife, my then very young daughter and I would not have had the night end well.

I can safely (?) say that drawing a knife convinced two dogs (different occasions) to break off attacks that they were about to launch. Both seemed to realize that the appearance of the knife in hand posed a menace to them.

I've previously (on several occasions) related how use of a knife prevented deaths from two cougars, an African lion, and other animals. The biggest was a crocodile that had to be stabbed in an eye. The blade wouldn't penetrate the armored hide. Well, wait: I ran across an account of a big tiger shark that attacked a SCUBA diver. And my son killed a grey reef shark with a knife. It was about five feet. He got it ashore and natives there (Guam) cooked it on the beach. It was probably after a fish he'd speared, but came too close and seemed a very real threat.

Search for the name Harry Wolhuter to read about the lion incident, in Kruger Park in 1903. Wolhuter's knife, sheath, and the lion's hide were displayed at the park for decades. May still be there for all I know.
There's a stone marker where the event happened. Wolhuter's horse threw him and bolted with his rifle on the saddle when the lion attacked. He had no pistol, so saved himself with a knife having a six-inch blade. This is a harrowing account. Read it. This is well known in South Africa and several custom knifemakers there have offered copies of the knife and probably, the sheath and belt, which Wolhuter made, himself.

A good strong sharp Buck 110 or a Case xx folding knives.