LVSteve
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Well, he has to say that, doesn't he.
Russia's 'Pearl Harbor'
- Thread starter biku324
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FDR and Secratary of War Henry L Stimson discussed how to "maneuver {Japan} into firing the first shot..." ten days before the attack on Pearl Harbor. "We could be attacked as early as next Monday..."
Did we supply the coordinates of the planes that were attacked to the Ukrainians?
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FDR really wanted to get us into the war with against Germany. The US Navy was already running convoy escort out to a meeting point in the Atlantic where Royal Navy ships would take over. Shots had been fired and lives lost but while the US public was getting pissed off they weren't ready to jump into a war yet. The tensions with Japan would seem to offer a round about route into the conflict because of their involvement with the Germans.
The big problem (and the delight of conspiracy theorists) was that the US military and political leaders seemed sure that any attack by Japan would be against the Philippines and possibly advance outposts like Guam and Wake. Lots of prewar discussions were based on the thought that Japan wanted Indonesian oil and would be most concerned with ensuring they could get it and transfer it back to Japan without interference. The idea of them sending a strike force all the way to Hawaii never seems to have been seriously considered (even though some 1930's US war games had revolved around just such an attack). Too much overconfidence by US leaders and failure to consider that a potential enemy might not do what they expected them to played a big part in the success of the attack.
It says the planes were 2500 miles from Ukraine. It seems amazing that the little drones have such long range. To defend against them I guess you would need some type of radar Phalanx gatling shotgun firing ten gauge 00 Buckshot.
The drones were on trucks that travelled most of the 2500 miles and then released the drones from within sight of the targets.
DWalt
Member
From the late 1970s into the mid 1980s, I was a fairly frequent visitor to Roswell for business reasons. That was after the base had been closed and turned over to the city. It had been an immense facility, then named Walker AFB. It had once been the largest USAF SAC base. During my visits, Lufthansa had been using it as what I think was a pilot or aircrew training facility. There were usually several Lufthansa planes on the ground. Boeing had also been using it for something, I do not know what, maybe flight test performance. Lots of empty area out there. Then there were the aliens. Some might also know that Roswell was the location where Dr. Robert Goddard did his pioneering rocketry development work. It was a good location for that purpose because there wasn’t much to catch fire when his rockets crashed. His laboratory and workshops were turned into a museum, but I think most of them were destroyed during a flood several years ago. I have not been back to Roswell since around 1990 and have no idea what is at the old base today.
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DWalt
Member
What has always mystified me is why Hitler declared war against the USA four days after Pearl Harbor. There are numerous reasons given but I can’t say that any make much sense. Hitler had no formal treaty obligation to jump in with Japan as an ally in the event of a war declaration between the US and Japan. Prior to Hitler’s declaration the U.S. and Germany were officially neutral toward each other.
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DWalt
Member
Not to mention that there was little to no unified Army-Navy command and control structure or response planning in Hawaii (and maybe everywhere) in the event of attack. General Short and Admiral Kimmel might as well have been living on different planets. I can assume the Japanese were well aware of that.
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OP
By killing children and bombing hospitals? He's been there, done that.
To me , that was when Germany lost the war. There was no way that GB was going to invade France and free Europe, They were lucky that they won the Battle of Britain and prevented a German invasion. Lend Lease was started in 1941, but it really didn't kick into high gear until the US formally entered the war.
Ditto the USSR. While it had almost endless manpower and natural resources, its industrial capacity was nowhere near the US. Lend Lease, especially trucks, planes, fuel, and food make the Soviet Union a versatile fighting force.
Hitler's vanity? Megalomania? Stupidity? Who knows.
It took 3-1/2 years, and millions of dead and wounded, but by declaring war on the USA, Hitler guaranteed that his 1000 year Reich would barely make it to a dozen.
Matt_X
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Tripartite pact of Sept 1940, which had been meant to deter countries not already involved from declaring war on any of the countries signing (German, Japan, Italy, and then some others such as Hungry joining in)
Never forget that Putin was KGB. He is an iron fisted dictator with dreams of restoring Russia back to the good ole days. A lot of Russians think that the USSR days were the good ole days too.
DWalt
Member
That might have worked had the US attacked Japan first. But it didn’t.
DWalt
Member
I have been reading up on the use of drones in Ukraine. I cannot believe that the future of warfare is the use of drones. What I can believe is that the future has arrived.
Matt_X
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Yes. But apparently the Japanese abassador to Germany had asked for a written commitment regardless - which was written on Dec 4.* Some argue that the newspaper story leaking plans of US attacking (which included the leaked conclusion the US needed 18 months to be ready for war) encouraged Hiutler's further shift from his earlier policy (of keeping the US out of conflict as much as possible).
*I do not know how well those conversations and drafts are documented (ie surviving documents versus statements later). That would be worth digging into.
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I've read Hitler's U-boat commanders talked him into it so they could target US warships guarding the convoys.
One of the history channels had a show that said a Russian spy in Japan tried to warn US about Pearl Harbor attack. Who knows?
LVSteve
Member
Not only was he KGB, but he was a liaison officer to the East German Stasi in Dresden, IIRC. Let's face it, the East Germans were took Communism to a level that probably made even the Russians wince with a third of the general population acting as tattle-tales for the Stasi. After working with them it's no wonder that Putin is so hardcore.
OP
An old cold warrior told me that the Bulgarians, under Communism, were the ones Russia had carry out things the Russians were too ethical to do themselves.
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