K38 Serial block request
- Thread starter pgbarrow
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all you can do is keep l0king. Best of luck
The lowest 1948 number I have in my database for a K target revolver is K18061. That one is a K-22 that shipped in April 1948. The lowest 1948 number I have for a K-38 is K23338, which shipped in June 1948.
The highest number I show for 1948 is K63717, a K-22 Masterpiece that shipped in November 1948. The highest number on a K-38 I show is K49658, shipped in October 1948.
Keep in mind that the K-38 did not reach full production until May 1948, so most of the K numbers in 1948 were still on K-22 Masterpiece revolvers.
An indicator of the upper end is K-38 K66222 that shipped in February 1949.
I hope this helps.
The highest number I show for 1948 is K63717, a K-22 Masterpiece that shipped in November 1948. The highest number on a K-38 I show is K49658, shipped in October 1948.
Keep in mind that the K-38 did not reach full production until May 1948, so most of the K numbers in 1948 were still on K-22 Masterpiece revolvers.
An indicator of the upper end is K-38 K66222 that shipped in February 1949.
I hope this helps.
To add to the mix, I will note that two K-38s are known to have shipped in February 1948 at K4562 and K4564. However, those were probably among the handful that were assembled in 1947. K-38 K4593 also shipped in February 1948, but I believe that one was also assembled in 1947.
The very first K-38 was assembled on June 6, 1947, but 1947 production was very low and none of them shipped until February 1948, as far as I can tell.
The very first K-38 was assembled on June 6, 1947, but 1947 production was very low and none of them shipped until February 1948, as far as I can tell.
It does, thank you. What resource are you using to view those numbers?
Thank you for that.
My own extensive database, accumulated over years, along with some specific information gleaned from Dr. Jinks (again, over a period of years).
Welcome to the Forum. All caliber K frame revolvers shipped in the serial number series, so in theory A K50,000 range could be a 22, 32, or 38 and would ship around the same year. Also, Roy generated a manufacture list by serial number and year. The serial numbers for 1948 ran from K18,732 to K73,121. This list is different than ship dates and some later guns in the range would have likely been shipped in 1949. If you are looking to finding guns shipped in 1948, stick to the earlier numbers below say K60,000. I have K61,189 that shipped in December 1948.
Somewhat confusing circumstances that make dating by a specific serial number not always as expected. The factory logs did not reference build dates, but rather ship dates and did not ship in serial number order so keeping within the range of K19,000 to K60,000 will most likely get you a gun built in 1948 and shipped that same year.
Somewhat confusing circumstances that make dating by a specific serial number not always as expected. The factory logs did not reference build dates, but rather ship dates and did not ship in serial number order so keeping within the range of K19,000 to K60,000 will most likely get you a gun built in 1948 and shipped that same year.
With respect to the K-32 Masterpiece, production didn't begin until December 1948, and as far as I can determine, none were shipped until early 1949. Hence, they don't really enter into the equation when talking about guns shipped in 1948. The 1948 units were either K-22 or K-38 Masterpiece revolvers.
The only reference I have is a K32 Masterpiece having shipped before 1949 is K2143 that shipped in July 22, 1947. I am told that a handful were made and shipped before 1949, but this number is the only one I have seen documented.
Gary
That's an interesting letter. In another place, Roy stated: "The first K-32 built were on December 29, 1948."
I'm wondering if the one mentioned in your letter was a pre-production unit. We know they were dinking around with 3 different models in the early postwar period. Perhaps the statement I quoted here had to do with production models.
There is also this, from another, but totally reliable, source:
"The first K-32 was K2143 . . . [it] was signed out to a salesman on 4/30/1948."
With that low a serial number, I'd have to assume it was a pre-production unit. The early production units were in the K56000 range, as I understand it.
That's an interesting letter. In another place, Roy stated: "The first K-32 built were on December 29, 1948."
I'm wondering if the one mentioned in your letter was a pre-production unit. We know they were dinking around with 3 different models in the early postwar period. Perhaps the statement I quoted here had to do with production models.
There is also this, from another, but totally reliable, source:
"The first K-32 was K2143 . . . [it] was signed out to a salesman on 4/30/1948."
With that low a serial number, I'd have to assume it was a pre-production unit. The early production units were in the K56000 range, as I understand it.
RE: K-32's I own K-32 serial # K2244. It has been extensively discussed on this forum and shipped March 10 1948.
RE: K-38's I own K23338, shipped June 1, 1948 and K37448, shipped Nov. 1, 1948. These are both 6" Masterpieces.
RE: K-38's I own K23338, shipped June 1, 1948 and K37448, shipped Nov. 1, 1948. These are both 6" Masterpieces.
The highest serial number I have found for a K-38 shipped before the end of 1948 is K46109 (Dec). Any serial number lower than that would be from 1948 (though possibly shipping later if it got stuck in the vault), and possibly a few numbers higher could be 1948 as well. Barring one or two special instances, all K plus four-digit serials (there are only a few, some mentioned above) are from 1948. (I have K4709, shipped in Feb '48.) There is a K-38 serial number gap between K26000 and K35000 (round numbers, not precise.) Guns below K26000 have single line frames. Guns above K35000 have four-line frames.
I have in my safe K-22 K14784, which shipped in January 1948. I generally think of K14000 as the highest serial number on a Masterpiece shipped in 1947, but I haven't bothered to nail that down.
Edited to add: A little quick research seems to show that K-22s with serials in the K13xxx range all shipped in January 1948. K22s with K12xxx serials shipped in both Dec 1947 and Jan 1948.
Edited Again to add: I missed Jack's data points in post 3 above. They certainly raise the S/N numbers for the Masterpiece revolvers produced in 1948, but I still don't have a serial number for a 1948 K-38 above K46109. My next known K-38 S/Ns are in the K75xxx-K77xxx range (1949). That seems like a long gap for a long-awaited model, so I probably just haven't looked hard enough to find them.
I have in my safe K-22 K14784, which shipped in January 1948. I generally think of K14000 as the highest serial number on a Masterpiece shipped in 1947, but I haven't bothered to nail that down.
Edited to add: A little quick research seems to show that K-22s with serials in the K13xxx range all shipped in January 1948. K22s with K12xxx serials shipped in both Dec 1947 and Jan 1948.
Edited Again to add: I missed Jack's data points in post 3 above. They certainly raise the S/N numbers for the Masterpiece revolvers produced in 1948, but I still don't have a serial number for a 1948 K-38 above K46109. My next known K-38 S/Ns are in the K75xxx-K77xxx range (1949). That seems like a long gap for a long-awaited model, so I probably just haven't looked hard enough to find them.
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David, that would make the chart on page 190 of Roy's History of Smith & Wesson incorrect?? He states that the 1948 manufacture of Masterpiece revolvers ran from K18,732 to K73,121. I have never determined how Roy developed that list, but it is so specific that he must have had some records to work with?? There seems to be no way to reconcile the dates when a Masterpiece was shipped without a letter. Examples were shipped up to 2 or 3 years out of serial number sequence. I do own a 38 Masterpiece K61189 that shipped in December 1948 and that is why I set a safe 1948 manufacture limit of K50,000. Ship dates are all over the board so impossible to nail down a pattern.
Gary, I don't think I would ever be comfortable calling some of the earliest compiled aggregate production tables incorrect, but I wouldn't shy from thinking they might be only as accurate as they could have been with the documents available at the time. I generally have broad trust in tables like the one you refer to, but I have found in my years looking into S&W serialization that the limits of production runs can change significantly with supplemental research.
When I bought my first .32 regulation police, the consensus was that production began around serial number 263000. Within a couple of years evidence in the form of lower numbered RPs showed that the first .32 RP actually had to be numbered about 258000 -- 258001, I suspect, since production units tend to end with a zero or a five rather than start with those digits. I agree that serial numbers and ship dates can be inconsistent, but if one finds several close-by serial numbers dated to a particular year, that's probably the year those guns were available for shipping. A nearby number that shipped later can be explained in a number of ways. But I think it's problematic for a revolver to have an earlier reported ship date than the majority of those numbered in its vicinity. That could be a misread catalog date or even a typo.
I have just discovered some Masterpiece revolvers with serial numbers in the K56xxx to K60xxx SN ranges that look to have been shipped in late 1948, so that pushes the top numbers higher than the range I posted above, not that I have evidence K-38s were among them. There are a few K-32s among them (the first "broad" release, with more K-32s coming in Spring of 1949), but many are K-22s.
When I bought my first .32 regulation police, the consensus was that production began around serial number 263000. Within a couple of years evidence in the form of lower numbered RPs showed that the first .32 RP actually had to be numbered about 258000 -- 258001, I suspect, since production units tend to end with a zero or a five rather than start with those digits. I agree that serial numbers and ship dates can be inconsistent, but if one finds several close-by serial numbers dated to a particular year, that's probably the year those guns were available for shipping. A nearby number that shipped later can be explained in a number of ways. But I think it's problematic for a revolver to have an earlier reported ship date than the majority of those numbered in its vicinity. That could be a misread catalog date or even a typo.
I have just discovered some Masterpiece revolvers with serial numbers in the K56xxx to K60xxx SN ranges that look to have been shipped in late 1948, so that pushes the top numbers higher than the range I posted above, not that I have evidence K-38s were among them. There are a few K-32s among them (the first "broad" release, with more K-32s coming in Spring of 1949), but many are K-22s.
I have been lucky enough to have seen and hold a 4" K32, which had been owned by one of our members a few years ago.
And how I would like to have one of those! I haven't thought about them in some years, but IIRC (a big if, these days) there were 10 shipped to a dealer in Ohio on a special order.
I had heard the same, only 10 known. The one I know of was purchased at retail, at a fairly large gun store, for a nothing price, as it was listed as a "cut down" pre mod 16, that had ruined the value. (How wrong they were).
I see no conflict. Roy indicates the serial number range for Masterpiece revolvers. The great majority of them, however, were K22s.
Bob
HuntFish918
Member
I sold my K-32 Masterpiece from 1956 (four screw) at the Tulsa Wanenmacher Gun show in April for $4,000 to a guy who must've been 90 years old! He and his buddy, who appeared even older, were tickled and all smiles when they walked away.
