Reloading a Winchester Model 1873 chambered in 357/38

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larmar1942

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I recently bought a Winchester Model 1873 chambered in 357 mag. /38 special. I am interested in reload data. I'm getting conflicting data from Hodgons. Need some help before I start reloading.
 
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OK ... now, download Hornady 10th Edision reloading manual in .pdf and turn to page 885.
You'll notice that there isn't any listing for HP 38 powder. Might be because faster powders may not reliably drive a jacketed bullet, with enough force, to leave the barrel in a revolver, let alone a rifle.

I'd impress upon you to purchase a powder listed by Hornady. Seems like H110 would be a good choice. Hodgdon has (1) load listed for that bullet using H110. The data was derived using a barrel length of 18.5". I'm assuming the Winchester has a 20"? Close enough at any rate.
 
Since you will be loading Hornady bullets ... use the Hornady Load Data . I have always found the Hornady Data to be reliable ... The Hornady Reloading Manual is always one of my first "Go-To's" when working up a new load .
Load Safe,
Gary
 
An 1873 in .38/357??? Where on Earth did you find that? No way would I fire factory ammunition in such a rifle. It has a very weak action. If it truly is in that caliber, I would use only the lightest handloads with lead bullets only.
 
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Unless someone rechambered an early model 1873 for some reason, my guess is the OP purchased a later Winchester 1873 model made under license in Japan. These are very well made rifles from what I have read, but the OP needs to be a bit more detailed in his desires. Are you wanting reduced power loads of normal loads? Are you going to run .357 brass or .38 Special brass? I have a later model Marlin Cowboy in .38/.357 and have made up several different loads for it, but .38s can be problematic with feeding. I like using .357 cases to avoid any carbon ring in the chamber with .38 cases. I use Solo 1000 which is no longer available, WW 231 and some other powders. All my load development was done using a chronograph so I knew what my bullet speeds were. I should add that I only use jacketed bullets of about 125 grain variety.

Rick H.
 
For safety, I reload the same for a carbine as for a S&W revolver, which should be within the pressure limits for a modern 1873. A modern (ie for smokeless powder) Winchester 1892 or Marlin 1894 could handle more, but I wouldn't want that stuff lying around. I've used hard cast 158 gr bullets from Oregon Trail (Silvercast) without noticeable leading, as well as Hornady 158 gr XTP HP jacketed bullets.

All bets are off for an older carbine rechambered for .357 Magnum.
 
Rick H. said:
Unless someone rechambered an early model 1873 for some reason, my guess is the OP purchased a later Winchester 1873 model made under license in Japan. These are very well made rifles from what I have read, but the OP needs to be a bit more detailed in his desires. Are you wanting reduced power loads of normal loads? Are you going to run .357 brass or .38 Special brass? I have a later model Marlin Cowboy in .38/.357 and have made up several different loads for it, but .38s can be problematic with feeding. I like using .357 cases to avoid any carbon ring in the chamber with .38 cases. I use Solo 1000 which is no longer available, WW 231 and some other powders. All my load development was done using a chronograph so I knew what my bullet speeds were. I should add that I only use jacketed bullets of about 125 grain variety.

Rick H.
Click to expand...
I just bought this new from Winchester. Using for target practice only. Looking for starting loads.
 
larmar1942 said:
I'm getting conflicting data from Hodgons.
Click to expand...
How so? Hodgdon shows the same HP38 loads for a 125 gr XTP in .357 pistol and rifle.

The 1873 Winchester is not a real strong design, Mr Browning did very well designing the 1886 and 1892 to replace the 1876 and 1873.
The modern reproductions are depending on modern steel to hold .357 Magnum through proof test.

I think the .357 starting load would be a gracious plenty.

You will note that they do not make .44 Magnum 1873s, you have to go to the 1892 action for that.
 
larmar1942 said:
Thanks Gary
Click to expand...

Rick H. said:
Unless someone rechambered an early model 1873 for some reason, my guess is the OP purchased a later Winchester 1873 model made under license in Japan. These are very well made rifles from what I have read, but the OP needs to be a bit more detailed in his desires. Are you wanting reduced power loads of normal loads? Are you going to run .357 brass or .38 Special brass? I have a later model Marlin Cowboy in .38/.357 and have made up several different loads for it, but .38s can be problematic with feeding. I like using .357 cases to avoid any carbon ring in the chamber with .38 cases. I use Solo 1000 which is no longer available, WW 231 and some other powders. All my load development was done using a chronograph so I knew what my bullet speeds were. I should add that I only use jacketed bullets of about 125 grain variety.

Rick H.
Click to expand...
I will be using the rifle only for target shooting. The rifle has a 20 inch barrel. Just looking for an economical load, nothing fancy.
 
Jim Watson said:
How so? Hodgdon shows the same HP38 loads for a 125 gr XTP in .357 pistol and rifle.

The 1873 Winchester is not a real strong design, Mr Browning did very well designing the 1886 and 1892 to replace the 1876 and 1873.
The modern reproductions are depending on modern steel to hold .357 Magnum through proof test.

I think the .357 starting load would be a gracious plenty.

You will note that they do not make .44 Magnum 1873s, you have to go to the 1892 action for that.
Click to expand...
This is a brand new rifle purchased directly from Winchester (through bass pro).has a 20 inch barrel. Target shooting only. Looking for an economical load.
 
You're going to lay $1200+ for a rifle, buy all the stuff to reload for it, then you're going to save 1.5 cents on powder because you want something economical? Whatever……

Do some extensive research on the strength of the 73. No, it's definite ot the strongest action there is. But I read somewhere that the barrel of a 73 let go before the action did.

Without looking, I'll bet a lot of those old black powder rifles had ballistics similar to a158 going 1200 fps. I wouldn't be afraid of a 158 at 1200. I've killed a lot of white tails with a 357 handgun and that weight projectiles.
 
larmar1942 said:
This is a brand new rifle purchased directly from Winchester (through bass pro).has a 20 inch barrel. Target shooting only. Looking for an economical load.
Click to expand...
lets unpack this carefully.
your looking at trying to save some green on ammo for a rifle we might want to be a little gentle with ...
The problem here is too many folks look at velocity alone as being definitive of a light load.in your performance metrics, this may be appropriate. but in this case we need to pay some respect to the interior ballistics involved here. if we look at a 231 load vs a CFE pistol load, either can to tuned to a similar velocity. However, the slightly greater charge of the slower burning CFE load will get you there at lower operating pressures. This is the kind of sauce you want to be working with.
Now lets look at your projectile choice a minute.... the 125 flat point variant XTP.
This was designed for the upper ranges of the 357 magnum and 357 maximum where the usual HP would get unruly. Honestly, a good coated cast bullet would probably be a better fit for this in general. You'll save more money on this bullet switch than you ever will on powder choice.
I have a Henry Big Boy in 357. my standard ball for this rifle is a 158 grain coated cast RNFP over AA#7.
I wouldn't call it mild. To the contrary, it produces some respectable horsepower you can count on at a price I can afford to enjoy. A similar approach with CFE pistol would likely fall right into your expectations without abusing anything at all
 
Yendor357 said:
You're going to lay $1200+ for a rifle, buy all the stuff to reload for it, then you're going to save 1.5 cents on powder because you want something economical? Whatever……

Do some extensive research on the strength of the 73. No, it's definite ot the strongest action there is. But I read somewhere that the barrel of a 73 let go before the action did.

Without looking, I'll bet a lot of those old black powder rifles had ballistics similar to a158 going 1200 fps. I wouldn't be afraid of a 158 at 1200. I've killed a lot of white tails with a 357 handgun and that weight projectiles.
Click to expand...
 
I, like many SASS shooters shoot a Uberti 1873 in 38/.357 and use .38 spl brass with 158 RNFP that I cast with many different powders....most common for me, is using 4 gr. of Unique. very mild and accurate...same with Win. 231/HP-38, Red Dot etc.
My '73 doesn't care about .357 or .38 brass....some rifles for whatever reasons will function best with the longer casing....

Don't remember velocity but think it's around 650 or so.

Would certainly meet your criteria. A number of fellow SASS shooters will use a 125 cast RNFP or truncated cone bullet with excellent results as well

Randy
 
My 18" Uberti 1873 replica loves .38.Spec. Penn 158 gr. lead RNFP, Accurate No. 5, 5.9gr; COAL = 1.455-1.460
Stock buckhorn/bead sights 100 yd zero gives:
Range in yards Muzzle 25 50 75 100 125
Trajectory -0.7" 2.7" 4" 3.2" 0" -5.5"

I worked up .38 instead of .357 because I have lots more .38 spec brass.
Do not let .38 get shorter than above COAL or you will have feed problems.
You'll need a flat point bullet for the tube magazine.
I've had no leading, no feed problems, no recoil, chrono avg 1088 fps.
Kinda like a .22 on steroids.
 
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