FBI Chicago 38 Special +P 158 LSWCHP loads

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Service Rifleman1

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Hello there. I have some Hornady 158 LSWCHP and also some Magtech 158 LSWC slugs and I would like to load up some accurate 38 special +P loads for my M64-5 Smith 4". I just got some TiteGroup powder along with my supplies of Unique and Bullseye. Please let me know any published loads from yore that would be suitable. Thank you. I have been shooting some loads with Unique 5.0 I believe and some Bullseye loads but I read an article awhile back by Brian Pearce and he was loading for a Smith and Wesson Pro 357 Magnum and used TiteGroup powder. Standard load data on the Can says 3.8 grains for standard pressure loads with 158 LSWC. Thank you.
 
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Hello there. Yes thank you, I have used that load as well. I will dig up my copy of the Handloader where Brian Pearce uses TiteGroup in his loads with the Hornday LSWCHP.
 
Take that Unique load of yours and put a heavy crimp on that lead bullet.
Most shooters with a J frame will say it is enough.

With a K frame you can go a little higher.
 
Yes I use a heavy crimp with a Lee crimping die. Excited to use some of the loads as I have some new slugs to try out. Shooting at about 20 yards with slow fire targets. Model 64-5 K frame the loads shoot well and are quite easy to shoot.
 
Years back I did some extensive work on replicating the FBI Load and I feel I was successful. Velocity alone is not the key, the felt recoil and of course accuracy is important too.

The powder charge I used is above current published limits but I and others have found a lot of data saying my charge is below the current SAAMI limits of 20,000 PSI. Use this data at your own risk.

Here's the load:
Winchester .38 Special +P case
158gr Hornady LSWC/HP
CCI 550 Primer (Magnum primer on this load)
7.0gr HS-6
COL 1.475"
4" M686 ---- 2" M640
927.0 -- AV --- 888.9
955.1 --- H --- 897.1
905.4 --- L --- 876.6
49.7 ---- ES --- 20.5
20.7 ---- SD ---- 7.9
17.0 ---- AD ---- 5.9
 
Nevada Ed wrote:
Most shooters with a J frame will say it is enough.
Click to expand...

Amen.

I shoot 158 grain jacketed bullets from the J-frame I inherited from my grandmother and five rounds per range session is quite enough for me.
 
Have used ArchAngelCD's HS-6 load, and it's a good one. In addition, I played around with AA#5 and came up with a 6.4gr load that pretty much does the same thing.

Don
 
6gr Alliant Power Pistol will get you right around 1000fps in a 4" tube
 
Anyone used the LSWC loads from Federal 38G +P loads or Winchester or Remington. I have read alot about the Buffalo Bore loads and have will continue to read up on some of the threads mentioned. Thank you.
 
Hello there. Thank you for the load data. I will have to pick up some of that powder HS-6 and try work up some loads with your data. I seen a pound of old 2400 in a shop that interested me to try some of the old 38/44 loads with 2400. Lots of choices to cook up some good 38 Special loads. Thank you all again.

Mike
 
Last edited:
5.5 gr. Unique, .357 brass, standard primers, 4" barrel 586= 860 fps chrono'ed. I used that with 150-158 gr. LSWCs in IPSC matches for years. Nice to shoot!
 
Service Rifleman1 said:
Anyone used the LSWC loads from Federal 38G +P loads or Winchester or Remington. I have read alot about the Buffalo Bore loads and have will continue to read up on some of the threads mentioned. Thank you.
Click to expand...

I have all three and I think the Winchester is most accurate but the Remington will expand best. The Federal load is not bad either but the bullet is harder than the one used in the Remington ammo.
 
It's always interesting to read these types of threads where someone wants to know about those chicago, fbi, treasury, keith, buffalo bore loads that skeeter worked on.

Myself, I like to pick 1 load. Here's what a fbi armorer has to say about the "fbi" load.

The FBI 158-grain lead HP +P .38 Special load is still available under the Remington symbol R38S12 or Winchester X38SPD. The equivalent Federal 38G has been discontinued. Alloy was 2% antimonial lead, which when fully cold worked and recrystallized is about 8 BHN. A cast HP of shape similar to #358429 with cavity 0.6 of the meplat diameter, with 15 degree included angle draft on the core pin, cast of 1:40 tin/lead has very similar upset characteristics but is a bit heavier at 162-164 grs. Velocity of the X38SPD with which I am most familiar was 855+/- 30 fps from the 4" SAAMI "vented" test barrel, which simulates revolver ballistics with a 0.008" cylinder gap.

This velocity is approximated with 158-162-grain cast LHPs using canister powders with either 4.2 grains of Bullseye, 4.8 grs. of W231, 5.2 grs. of Unique or 5.5 grs. of PB, at a minimum cartridge OAL of1.50". All are +P loads!
 
Yes it seems that the lead SWC and HP's were the ones the people who carried the 38's depended on the loads for their lives and their families. The "Treasury" ++P+ loads with the 110-125 JHP's were another one of the loads as opposed to the 158 RN of antiquity which sadly was not very dependable to stop a determined adversary. Thank you.
 
I know its not a powder that you asked about, but I use 12.0 grns of IMR 4227. It is VERY accurate out of my 686, and has a very tiny orange flash in low light. I'm getting about 900ish fps (my data isn't here or I would post exact numbers)

The only issue is that load is above the 38 +p data I have, but under the minimum load for 357. So take that how you will.
 
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMyY3FsWZkE[/ame]

I used Speer's SWCHP, not Hornady's so i can't attest for them, using 5.4 grains Unique Fiocci cases and Winchester SPP. Ended up with a 5 shot

889fps, 855, 927, 906, 924
900 fps average standard deviation 26.4! 284 ft. lbs.

I put time into each round, but still couldn't get consistent velocity, but it was fine pressure wise, and worked well enough. Bullets seem pretty hard for swage, as other shave said here and other forums, lead hardness for SWCHP changes from make to make. Still, for the low power of my load, the .55 average caliber mushrooms and 16 inch penetration is actually competitive in today's world.

Keep in mind BB's FBI load is not only hotter, but uses what they claim to be pure lead, ultra soft bullets. I might have to buy some Hornady's and try them in a test.

Planning on doing a hot load 357 Magnum test with these same SWCHP tomorrow, be interesting to see those results.
 
Duckford said:
Handload 38 Speical Speer FBI Load Clear Ballistics Test - YouTube

I used Speer's SWCHP, not Hornady's so i can't attest for them, using 5.4 grains Unique Fiocci cases and Winchester SPP. Ended up with a 5 shot

889fps, 855, 927, 906, 924
900 fps average standard deviation 26.4! 284 ft. lbs.

I put time into each round, but still couldn't get consistent velocity, but it was fine pressure wise, and worked well enough. Bullets seem pretty hard for swage, as other shave said here and other forums, lead hardness for SWCHP changes from make to make. Still, for the low power of my load, the .55 average caliber mushrooms and 16 inch penetration is actually competitive in today's world.

Keep in mind BB's FBI load is not only hotter, but uses what they claim to be pure lead, ultra soft bullets. I might have to buy some Hornady's and try them in a test.

Planning on doing a hot load 357 Magnum test with these same SWCHP tomorrow, be interesting to see those results.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the wonderful world of unique. Unique is very unique when it comes to consistent velocities or lack there of. If you were using standard loads instead of p+ loads you'd be getting 100fps es's for 10-shot groups.
 
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