Grandpa’s Model 3 Russian First Model

Norcal_lover · Mar 27, 2018

What's my plan, indeed....

By "good spray solvent," are we talking about products such as CLP or Ultra-Klenz? Or the home grown combo of favorite products?

So, I think it was James who got me thinking that I could do a decent job cleaning the internals with grips in situ. If cleaning doesn't rectify the hammer cocking issue, guess I'll start looking for a trust-worthy gunsmith to clean.

I'm still waiting for a relative to provide the piece of ivory that broke free from grip quite a while ago. Everyone has a story....

Wiregrassguy · Mar 27, 2018

Surprised that the screws came out so easy and that the sideplate came off without any trouble.

No kidding! I've got a 1874 Commercial Russian that I can't get the screws loose even after soaking it for a week in ATF.

Really good job, Pam! That baby is screaming to be disassembled and cleaned. You can probably get a lion's share out with aerosol brake cleaner and some brass brushes, but the hammer really needs to come out so you can clean behind it. Again, it isn't hard and you seem pretty fearless. But I know guys that wouldn't have gone as far as you have.

glowe · Mar 27, 2018

The method of removing the hammer involves removing the mainspring and, again the stocks should come off . . . does it seem to be a theme? Loosening the tension screw on the front bottom of the butt=frame will relieve the tension on the spring, allowing it to be removed from the small stirrup at the rear of the hammer. Once that is done, you can retract the hand from the slot in the frame and pull the trigger to the rear and the hammer should come out. Every gun I work on involves taking pictures as I disassemble the mechanism in case something falls out or off. Once the hammer is out, you can use either of the products you mention and a toothbrush to loosen the crud and continue to spray and scrub until clean. Barricade or other synthetic oil can be then sprayed on the internals and the revolver is ready for reassembly.

Norcal_lover · Mar 27, 2018

Gary, You think I should remove grips? Is that an earthquake or did you just rock my world?!? ... ... ... I'm attaching a photo showing the grip hanging on to screw w about quarter inch of ivory. And have I mentioned that this is the first gun I've ever worked on? And where are the women on this thread? Sheesh.

BigBill · Mar 27, 2018

I been asking in the past where are the s&w Russian revolvers hiding. I'm surprised we haven't seen any imported back to the USA. The Zara son ordered some in nickel finish lucky us if we find one.

BigBill · Mar 27, 2018

Having the gun lettered is important. I need to get mine lettered.

SPEEDGUNNER · Mar 27, 2018

As soon as you add the word "Grandpa" to the item description the value meter tips the scale to priceless.

Norcal_lover · Mar 27, 2018

An "amen" from the chorus!

glowe · Mar 27, 2018

If you have not tried to remove the stock screw, put a drop of light oil on the threaded end and let it set for a day. Try to turn the screw to see if it spins the escutcheon in the broken stock and if not, remove the screw. Use the single edge razor blade technique and the stocks should come off without much trouble. At least you do not have to worry about getting a lot of solvent on the ivory that way and you may be able to remove enough crud with a blaster and toothbrush to get the mechanism working again. You know, one small step at a time.

I hope you will be able to find the other half of the left stock.

Norcal_lover · Mar 27, 2018

Great approach, Gary. Thank you. Sorry if I got snippy earlier. I'm a bit of a nervous nelly when it comes to this gun. Sigh.

mmaher94087 · Mar 27, 2018

A drop of penetrating oil like Liquid Wrench may help. The BIG unknown is whether or not the grip screw is rusted to the escutcheon in the ivory. The key to success is patience, patience and more patience. Let the oil soak for a while (like three days) before trying to remove the screw. It is very important to not get any oil between the escutcheon and the ivory as that sliver of ivory is the only thing that keeps the escutcheon from spinning (and not coming loose from the screw). Wipe off any residual oil before trying to remove the grip screw just incase it wants to drip or run on the ivory. When you try to loosen the screw; watch the escutcheon and if it moves, STOP! We'll have to go to plan B.

Two things come to mind: In your photo of the broken grip and frame; it looks as if the locating pin (center of the bottom of the frame) has been removed at some point in the past. There is a hole there but I don't see a pin. Most often this pin will chip/break the bottom of the grip from improper removal such as prying from the top of the grip.

Secondly, from my experience with ivory (Elephant, Walrus and Mastodon); your grips look as if they checked from age (they dry out) and, through use, collect debris like skin oil in the checking. The debris works like a wedge and, at some point, causes the ivory to fracture along the grain like a piece of wood. A small bump might be all it needs to splinter. Your photo of the fractured edge shows the browning of the checked area that led to the fracture and the clean yellow-white of the fractured surface. I believe these ivory grips can be repaired (depending on the condition of the missing piece).

Lastly; NICE WORK!

Norcal_lover · Mar 27, 2018

Mike,

I would have lead with, "Given my experience with MASTODON ivory...." Care to elaborate?

Is anyone on this tread a professional gunsmith? Or, can anyone direct me to a schematic of the internals of this Model? I see why the trigger isn't catching in position but not sure cause. Whatever spring or piece that is supposed to keep trigger under some pressure to return to slightly forward position isn't doing its job. (Dontcha love it when I talk w all these tech terms?)

Still Pam

model3sw · Mar 27, 2018

Norcal_lover said:
Blue Wonder on order! Not sure about removing cylinder (tho I needed your careful instructions because i wondered how I would do it).

I removed the side plate by removing the 3 screws, pulled back trigger, and persuaded it to release. It did fairly easily.

More pics!

OUCH !!! I copied, rotated and enlarged your photo of the open side plate. It appears as though the stops on the hammer were filed fairly deep.

On all Model 3s ... if a tenured gunsmith is worth his salt, it can be lightly resharpened with the proper India stones but just once, if it had never been repaired prior.

if sharpened with stones (and not filed) the hammers usually won't take a 2nd sharpening. Of those I have repaired (from original configuration) it's amazing how little effort with a good quality India stone it takes to bring the steps (or full hammer back step only) back into proper working order. The repair is almost invisible if performed properly.

However, the moment the hammer stops are touched with a file, that finishes it. Although you may get it to function once filed, it will never again function properly until the hammer and trigger are replaced or repaired.

Very few gunsmiths have the ability to weld on, then trim back near factory specs.

mmaher94087 · Mar 27, 2018

With all the junk in the action, it's hard for me to tell. But with your description it might be that the trigger return spring is missing or broken. Without beating a dead horse any more than we have; without the grips off it's hard to tell what's wrong. I suggest that you apply forward pressure to the trigger (towards the sight, on the front end of the barrel) as you cock the hammer of the revolver. If it stays cocked; your problem is the trigger return spring.

As for the ivory; it is antique. My late father, a Geologist, collected it from all over the world when he worked for the U.S. Geological Survey and many oil companies. The Mastodon ivory came out of Alaska and Canada when we lived there. The Mastodon ivory is a brownish color and not particularly good looking in my opinion. The Eskimos carved it and it was often used in Chess sets; Walrus ivory was lighter and on one side and Mastodon for the opposing side. Ivory is like finger nails and hair; mostly protein that grows similar to wood, and with a grain. Like wood, it dries with age and will split. I'm sure that if you look at the ivory grips on your revolver that you will see the 'grain'.

Wiregrassguy · Mar 27, 2018

Pam, I am completely impressed with your persistence on this. We do have some women here that are collectors, but I don't think anyone has the older guns like you're dealing with. If they did I'm sure they would have weighed in by now. And I totally respect the women that collect firearms. It's a very small fraction of the Collector community that are female. I encourage you to continue to work on this gun because you will really respect it more as you learn how to maintain it and upgrade it.

I believe if you can get the grip screw out, you can reach underneath the fractured grip panel and lift it off. Then it would be simple to just push the left panel off through the frame. When you get the piece that has broken away I'm sure that you can have it repaired so that it can go back on the gun. You likely will never shoot this because ammo is not made commercially and is difficult to make yourself. So, the grips just need to be stabilized so they don't fracture through casual handling. They have tremendous provenance with the gun and I believe they should stay on the gun if possible.

Be patient. You're doing great so far. And I think everyone here want you to be successful in getting this gun restored as much as possible.

Guy

Norcal_lover · Mar 27, 2018

I didn't think I could get away from providing another of my Ansel Adamsesque photos or 3. First and third photos different angles of hammer at 'rest' and second shows what it should look like with hammer back. I had to use my fingers to pull the trigger towards end of barrel for the um lock to engage.

Interesting background and interesting Ivory 101 lesson. Thanks!

Norcal_lover · Mar 27, 2018

Mike, et al.,

I've attached photo of most-telling damage of dehydration (as I've recently learned. It does remind me of wood splitting.

You guys are providing so much info brain starting to leak out ears. I need to think about what I'm trying to accomplish!

Night!

model3sw · Mar 28, 2018

Norcal_lover said:
I didn't think I could get away from providing another of my Ansel Adamsesque photos or 3. First and third photos different angles of hammer at 'rest' and second shows what it should look like with hammer back. I had to use my fingers to pull the trigger towards end of barrel for the um lock to engage.

Interesting background and interesting Ivory 101 lesson. Thanks!

Being it is not an official bullseye target gun, you may just be able to make the parts you have work for you.

Everything looks so much better when it's clean

The Model 3s seem to have timing and sequencing issues that become more prominent, incrementally, the deeper the stops on the hammer are cut.

Spend a few $ and get it to a good gunsmith.

Ask here, in the forum, for referral advice to have it examined by qualiifed gunsmith who works on these specific model S&Ws.

YeshuaIsa53 · Mar 28, 2018

Great gun, and you have guts. Thanks for sharing the story and letting us all learn from the Pros. Only advice I can add is to use the proper-fitting screwdrivers, and listen to these guys. Let them help you find someone qualified working on these old gems.

Norcal_lover · Mar 28, 2018

Be still said:
Great gun, and you have guts. Thanks for sharing the story and letting us all learn from the Pros. Only advice I can add is to use the proper-fitting screwdrivers, and listen to these guys. Let them help you find someone qualified working on these old gems.

Thanks for screwdriver tip!

Yes, I'm hoping others are paying attention to this thread. Rather extraordinary advice from the Prod. One might say, historic.

Pam

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