Grandpa’s Model 3 Russian First Model

[model3sw]

Hi Sal,

Thanks for your thoughts. This gun is what a relative called "tight." No wobble, no loose joints, no creaking when she gets up in the morning....

The reason I initially worked on the gun was to learn as much as I could about the gun and its history. I also felt it would renew a bond I had with my late grandfather (it did). I already feel an ownership I didn't feel previous to cleaning the gun and talking to you folks/collectors. I didn't work on the gun myself to avoid spending money on the gun. I'll drop shiny coins when i know what's wrong w trigger, etc. and when I'm ready to have it professionally cleaned.

I will keep the original ivory stocks for above reasons.

I look forward to your additional comments, Sal. It's really impressive how many of you spend a great deal of time and effort helping the newbies out. Thanks!

Pam

Pam, Us old older guys have little else to do. We can be very helpful and courteous. However, at times, we can be brutally honest.

Weigh advice from the sources that offer it. You choose the proper method that suits you. The majority of the advice is spot on.

You have found the correct haunt of us chivalrous (well most of us) old (many of us) S&W collectors and preservationists. Many of us rescue old and "sick" S&Ws like others might rescue old or abused animals. And, most likely, we rescue animals, too. (I'm a sucker for a stray canine that need a meal, is sick or has a sad face ).

After most of my life in automotive restorative repairs and full body and mechanical restorations, I have had the sad duty of informing people who were sentimentally attached to an old car, that they are likely going to spend more money in restoration than the car is worth and would likely not be a wise investment. This statement was brutally honest, yes, but necessary. The owners could then make a wiser choice yet most times, against advice, they proceeded with the repairs and / or restoration.

My technique was to put up a full and fair evaluation, up front. Best case to worst case scenarios.

However, sentiment "is" love. It's a all or nothing proposition, most times not making any common sense what so ever. But, we fragile humans grasp sentiment tightly, as we should. Sentiment and love are places we feel safe and secure.

About 25 years ago, I had a in-depth discussion with Norm Flayderman, the sole antique guru of the time for many decades prior and until his death several years back. In his original and unique publications on antique firearms identification and value (where there were no other publications that came anywhere near the quality of his) he wrote that mechanical condition and bore (the inside of the barrel not a person) have no variance on the value of an antique firearm.

I contested this with him in conversations at social functions. Being a master mechanic almost my entire adult life, my premier concern would be mechanical function. To me, what good is it if it doesn't function properly ?

Words from a guy who does ground-up restorations ... everything not only has to look as it did when new ... it has to function as it did when new.

I also coined a short phrase that "new is only new once". After that there can be, "like" new (to a very rigid set of standards) but THAT is it. It will never again be "new".

In summation, I suggest you focus on the mechanical issues first. After that's taken care of, decide where to go from there, reevaluating how much you have invested at that time.

PS: we are not so old that we do not recognize the double entendres and innuendos but we're just loving it. Welcome to the group.

 

[Norcal_lover]

[Pam will need to join us at a later date. She is currently sitting in the corner of the room breathing into a paper bag... ... muttering about GTO's, Dawn dishwashing liquid, and moonshine... ....]

 

[JSR III]

Maybe Keith Brown could whip up a set of Roper's for that gun. I have a buddy that makes knives and he acquired a set of Mastodon ivory scales to make a knife handle out of while visiting Alaska. Since they are all dead, I don't think that ivory is illegal however quite expensive. Would make very cool stocks though.

 

[Norcal_lover]

Sir Sal,
Thank you for taking the time to explain your perspective - and so eloquently. I am quite sure everyone is recommending actions/ repairs, etc. based on their own unique successful experience. I appreciate every comment, especially the plain spoken ones.

James the III and others,
Thanks for the suggestion/referral. I'm still holding out hope that the Wells Fargo wagon will eventually bring the original missing piece of ivory. Fingers still crossed.

 

[Norcal_lover]

Master Gary,
So Much Great Information! I especially like the tidbit about "hide glue." I guess if I am to restore, I'd better get to boiling cow skin.
I have visited the ivory restoration/repair site, and their before/after pictures are remarkable.
I need to re-read your post several times before I can pretend to ask an informed question.
Pam

The glue can also be hide glue, an old-time popular adhesive that was cheap and easy to use. Problem is that with both latex (rubber) or hide glue it that they are very weak. I do not think you need to worry about glue on the stock unless you find the other half. There are a few conservators out there that can replace the missing piece and if you want to keep them on the gun, I would seek out their advice. They will properly clean, repair, and give you a professional job. There is certainly a cost to this work, but it will be well worth the effort. I am the first to say I would be an amateur at repairing and conserving ivory and would definitely contact experts in the field.

Everyone has their own ideas on how to do stuff, unfortunately, some I have seen in this thread should not be attempted by amateurs. Here is some information I located that might help you out.

Cleaning
If the ivory object is in good stable condition, cleaning the surface of dirt and grime with a mild soap and water solution is appropriate. If the dusting is not enough the ivory can be cleaned with a mixture of water and mild soap (such as Ivory Snow or WA Paste). Never soak ivory as the water could cause the dirt to become more visible by embedding it into cracks or pores. Many liquids can be destructive to ivory so avoid if possible or contact a professional.

Stabilization and structural treatments
Avoid over the counter adhesives when repairing cracks or breaks of ivory. These repairs are difficult and the use of poor adhesives can result in staining of the ivory and embrittlement as the adhesives age. Breaks and cracks can be important historically and show its use of the object. Unnecessary repairs can result in the loss of that historical information. Contact a conservator before any structural repairs are made.

Surface treatments
Avoid wax or other protective coatings as they can age over time resulting in yellowing or darkening of the ivory surface. It can also obscure surface details that may be important to the object. The protective coatings can become difficult or even impossible to remove without damage to the object. If possible to remove unstable surface treatments, do so with appropriate solvents. Use caution and have a professional consulted before doing any work on the ivory.

Intervention
Especially in archaeological contexts, interventive treatment may in some cases be considered necessary. Such intervention is governed by conservation ethics, in particular the principles of reversibility and minimum intervention. Possible treatments include the reduction of salts to prevent further deterioration, and the consolidation of delaminating and friable components. Any treatment should be undertaken by a conservation professional.

Contact a professional
Ivory is extremely sensitive and reactive, if it is broken or extremely dirty please contact a professional conservator to conduct the repairs and extensive cleaning.

If you are going to pass this revolver down to future generations, repair and stabilization of those stocks is very important. One of the largest ivory restoration firms in the US is below and maybe a good place to call.

Ivory Repair, Ivory Restoration, fineart-restoration.com

 

[Norcal_lover]

I hear you Gentleman Guy.
Pam

Pam,
I think a jeweler should be able to clean and repair the stocks if you feel uncomfortable doing it.

 

[Norcal_lover]

Hi Ed,
Thanks for sending the schematics; I've already used the info. I've discovered subtle differences between how various sources present the same info via schematics. I see that multiple resources are needed and appreciate you helping. Could you tell me title of book from which you pulled the information?

Thanks again!
Pam

Pam, It was me that offered to send you a schematic, etc. PM me with your USPS Mail address, and it's on the way. Ed.

 

[opoefc]

Pam, Not having kept copies of what I sent you, I'm going to shoot in the dark here. I know part of it was from the Gun Digest Book of Exploded Firearms Drawings, 3rd edit. by Haroldl A. Murtz, p. 363. Also, I believe I sent you info from "Antique Firearms Assembly / Disassembly" by David R. Chicoine and perhaps from another book by same author, " Smith & Wesson Sixguns of the Old West" Different authors used different terminology for the same parts, which can confuse newcomers, so I hope all this helped. Ed.

 

[Norcal_lover]

Hi Ed! Oh thanks for info. And I have since learned that there are multiple sources for this sort of thing. I was just looking for my "trigger spring" (because every girl needs one).

Oh! I received the missing piece of ivory! Yup, I'll attach pics. When I overcome my procrastination, I'll probably start calling for estimates. Will probably start w Gary's shared link.

Warm regards,
Pam

 

[model3sw]

I have scanned an old article by Roy Double from the 1970s which was the first comprehensive work on Model 3s (all of them) with some very nice parts diagrams.

Download link closed. Any S&WCA member who may still want a copy, please EMAIL me. Sal

 

[Norcal_lover]

Thanks, Sal the Senior! Mr. Double's effort contained rich information. Great stuff - though how y'all distinguish one variant, model, issue from another is still baffling! And that serial numbers were used in such a casual fashion turns my Virgo brain into perma-tilt.

A few pics are attached to show my progress. I think I shall continue to clean for a bit and then stop and look for someone to turn the gun over to for addl cleaning and TLC, and, as part of the cleaning process, engage in a conversation about what is causing the hammer not to cock and what it would take to fix. Thanks for listening!

Pam

 

[model3sw]

Thanks, Sal the Senior! Mr. Double's effort contained rich information. Great stuff - though how y'all distinguish one variant, model, issue from another is still baffling! And that serial numbers were used in such a casual fashion turns my Virgo brain into perma-tilt.

A few pics are attached to show my progress. I think I shall continue to clean for a bit and then stop and look for someone to turn the gun over to for addl cleaning and TLC, and, as part of the cleaning process, engage in a conversation about what is causing the hammer not to cock and what it would take to fix. Thanks for listening!

Pam

Pam, what chemical or product did you use on "Pawpaw's" old Russian that cleaned the dull rusted areas and left the Nickel unscathed ?

You believe at my age I never attempted anything like that ?

Brava, to you, for your courage and determination ! You girls have it all over us guys with the cosmetic process. Well, most "guy" type guys ... that is. (That's "guy" with U in between).