I need help identifying this revolver for certain. I have researched quite a bit, but cannot seem to find the exact revolver. Its serial # is 21589. I could not find a caliber marking on the gun, but did take photos of the stamping on top of the barrel. Hope you guys can help. I attached the photos I hope that feature works.
Smith and Wesson US Marked American
- Thread starter tkopperl
- Start date
I believe that's a first model American Cavalry revolver. It would be chambered for 44 American which was the predecessor to the 44 Russian. If you have access to it Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, 4th edition, has all the serial numbers for these guns.
Guy
Guy
I'm sorry. It would be a 2nd Model American made between 1872 and 1874.
Wiregrass, thank you for the info. My best guess was a second model, but I have never seen a second model with the US stamp or the swivel on the grip. I assume this was a cavalry pistol, but with the high serial # i'm not sure how to reference that to a military shipment. Do you think the US mark adds value? I was thinking its a $2500 gun, but I have no idea.
I'm absolutely no expert on these guns. Best bet might be to get an historian's letter if you can wait the 3 months it is taking to produce them. I know the 1st models' serials have been published but I doubt there is a compilation of the 2nd models. Are the cylinder chambers bored through or is there a shoulder in them? Also, is there an A and/or a P on the cylinder face?
Pardon my rudeness. I welcome you to the forum with a very interesting first post! An expert will likely come along with better information than I can provide. I still believe your best course is to get a letter for it. A letter will remove any question about its authenticity and will establish a base for valuation. Your valuation could be spot on or could be off in either direction based on the letter's information.
Books
SWCA Member
I sure looks like a Smith & Wesson American (2nd Model). However the 2nd edition of The Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson lists the top serial number as 20735.
Very interesting:
Books
Very interesting:
Books
The SCSW, 4th Edition says:
They must have gotten better info over the next 2 revisions.
They must have gotten better info over the next 2 revisions.
Re-stamped
I'm no expert on these models but I can comment on the U.S. marking on the barrel?
In my opinion it's been re-stamped. The letter's are not correct for the U.S. military marking of that period...They are later in design and therefore later stamped on the gun....
This is a very common ploy to attempt to fake a U.S. military issued gun...."Extremely" common on Colts!!
Murph
I'm no expert on these models but I can comment on the U.S. marking on the barrel?
In my opinion it's been re-stamped. The letter's are not correct for the U.S. military marking of that period...They are later in design and therefore later stamped on the gun....
This is a very common ploy to attempt to fake a U.S. military issued gun...."Extremely" common on Colts!!
Murph
Fake US Stamp
Thank y’all for the responses. I was suspect of such, but never thought to verify the fonts. Were there even any 2nd models sold to the military? What about the swivel ring on the grip? I haven’t seen this on any other civilian gun, so was it likely added also?
What identifying feature distinctly makes this a 2nd model? That might seem like a dumb question but I don’t know as the models all look nearly identical to me.
Could this have been a 3rd model that was marked later with the other font?
Thank y’all for the responses. I was suspect of such, but never thought to verify the fonts. Were there even any 2nd models sold to the military? What about the swivel ring on the grip? I haven’t seen this on any other civilian gun, so was it likely added also?
What identifying feature distinctly makes this a 2nd model? That might seem like a dumb question but I don’t know as the models all look nearly identical to me.
Could this have been a 3rd model that was marked later with the other font?
mmaher94087
SWCA Member
Second question first: the Third Model has a big thumbscrew on the top strap for removing the cylinder. Your revolver has the characteristics of the 2nd Model American or the 1st Model Russian which utilizes a slot type screw to remove the cylinder and has a 'bump' in the frame for the trigger pin. 1st Model Americans use a smaller trigger pin and the frame is flat below the pin. A quick determination of the caliber can be made by looking at the cylinder bores. If a step is present then it is a Russian .44. No step; .44 American. As for the lanyard; I believe it to be a later addition as it is not factory. It appears to be of the type installed in South American countries such as Argentina.
new2S&W
Member
Thank you
Ahhh! I clearly see the difference with the bump by the trigger guard. I had always thought the Russians had the curly spur on the trigger guard but it sounds like that might have only been for the Russian contract and there were domestic Americans chambered in .44 Russian. Would that still be considered a Russian?
So we are all agreeing that this is a 2nd model that was one of the 20,735 revolvers made between 72-74. They were all sold to the civilian market. The stamping is not correct for the period and was added to enhance its value. Is the absolutely certain or could this contract have had different font?
I have several other smiths I believe 1903s that I haven’t specifically identified either..
Ahhh! I clearly see the difference with the bump by the trigger guard. I had always thought the Russians had the curly spur on the trigger guard but it sounds like that might have only been for the Russian contract and there were domestic Americans chambered in .44 Russian. Would that still be considered a Russian?
So we are all agreeing that this is a 2nd model that was one of the 20,735 revolvers made between 72-74. They were all sold to the civilian market. The stamping is not correct for the period and was added to enhance its value. Is the absolutely certain or could this contract have had different font?
I have several other smiths I believe 1903s that I haven’t specifically identified either..
This is a Model 3, 3rd Model Russian, commercial. Notice the round butt vs. the square butts on the 1st and 2nd models. Probably the most noticeable feature difference besides the large cylinder release screw and the large knuckle.
This is a typical lanyard swivel and ring.
This is a typical lanyard swivel and ring.
Last edited:
opoefc
US Veteran
The lanyard is not factory. The US stamp is a fake. ( no military inspector's stamps on the cylinger face, etc. ) Otherwise, it's a 2nd model American that has been refinished at least once in it's past - not uncommon. If it were my gun, I would remove the fake US stamp, and then enjoy the gun as is. Ed
Books
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sspierce8
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