Modified or Butchered?

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red9

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I will start by saying that I am a fan of guns that have been modfied in a manner that makes them better target guns. These two, however, are pushing the limit. I hope that the work was done at a time when they did not have much value in their original condition.
I attended an auction that had about twenty early N frames - .44 triplelocks & second models, .45 1917s, and .455 1st and 2nd models. Most had unmarked solid and vent ribs with target sights and brass beads, trigger stop screws, and (I have no idea why, possibly to lighten?) some metal removed from the top of the hammer spur. Many were shortened to four inches. Some had original stocks, some what may have been Sandersens at one time. One Colt .357 Shooting Master had a King rib and Ropers with chunks removed.
I took home two. One is a .44 second model with amateur Roper copies and solid rib. The serial number is offset for the swivel. The second is a .455 MK II 1st model with vent rib, matching unaltered stocks and cylinder, and a 1917 ACP cylinder.

Bob


 
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looks like you bought a "shooters" guns. guy probably had a ball with them and didn't care about the mods. the hammer thing has me somewhat puzzled though. maybe he (she) had small thumbs? i've seen nice vintage guns that were modified to the point of hideous myself. giant monte carlo stocks with gawdy pistol grip caps on otherwise nice rifles, etc. i've even bought a few and took the time to return them to their original condition, usually losing money in the process. its a hobby and cheaper and healthier than a lot of others.
 
Applying today's standard against the realities of the past is an exercise in frustration. In times gone by, they simply did not have the variety of pistols available that we do now. Many of the modifications done by these earlier gunsmiths to then-common guns were ultimately the beginning of the same features on factory guns. While some of these attempts could be labeled as butchery, there are a great number that were truly innovative. Finding and collecting these is a highly interesting subcategory in its own right.
My vote is for "MODIFIED" and these are a couple of nice examples...congratulations.
 
I would be pleased as punch to own a couple. It's still history.

I saw them advertised. They were diverse, but looked like there was a common thread. Did you get a story on where they came from?
 
I'd say modified, but then again I love old custom target guns. These two however don't seem to be as old as one would believe, the modern adjustable S&W rear sight gives them away. Just curious, are either ribs marked King? I've never seen a solid King rib and the ventilated one doesn't have that King look to it. What was done to the those Ropers on the other hand is barbaric.
 
To me, this is like an older hot rod. A driver, not a show car.

Both look well done with the finish a bit dull.

Definitely to be savored as a legacy from another time.

We get used to the awesome as new specimens that have perfect finishes
and are presented with expert photography.
Each a work of art to be viewed but not fired. Causes me to be amazed at
every level.

You have some fine older shooters that can be handled, fired and shared.
Priced right, I also would happy to have either, although I prefer the convertible. Weird and likable.

To bad about the Ropers though :cool:
 
In another thread I talked about the early 60's American Rifleman magazines I recovered. 1917's were $29.00, bbl ramps were $11.00.
As gaucho said, like old hotrods, and real bobber motorcycles. Not from the realm of elite, but more likely from the workin' man who used his hands. I would've bought them too.
 
I too think that these handguns should be appreciated for the period they came from and their intended purpose. The shooter/owner got what he wanted and the gunsmith was able to create it for him. This is not the most extreme example of customization I have ever seen, but it is considerable. In a different sense, they are 'collectible' if one if building a collection of customized shooters. Hey, there could be a book in this! Go for it. ......... Big Cholla
 
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To me it represents a different era when people had limited choices and were either handy themselves or had friends or gunsmiths that were. They converted them to what they wanted and shot the tar out of them and in most cases they weren't collectors.
 
An old dime spends the same as a new one. Neat old guns. Are they accurate? They don't have to be "perty" to shoot Good. DW
 
"Did you get a story on where they came from?"
No, but obviously from one source.

"Just curious, are either ribs marked King?"
The ribs and front sights are unmarked. Both the solid and vent ribs are very well mated to the post-war rear sights.

 
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