S&W manufacturing priorities

For a couple of years now I have been wanting to buy a new M&P R8 from my LGS. So far his distributors tell him they don't have any to sell, can't get any from the factory. The other day I see Bud's Guns have them for sale and I also got an email from Bud's Guns saying a gun I had on a wish list since May of 2014 is now available, the M&P R8. I am going to wait and buy from my LGS..............eventually. I am not asking for comment about where or when I should buy this gun.

I have been in manufacturing most of my adult life so I understand how they may have 4 or 5 "lines" to make guns and that they would have to do "change-overs" to have runs of certain models.

What I am wondering is does anyone have any first hand knowledge how S&W determines priorities on which gun to make?

Thanks in advance for you input and knowledge.

Harrydale

I only recall seeing a new M&P R8 once locally, in recent years.

I don't know the companies official stance on it's priorities but I'm pretty sure revolvers are not one of them.

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My guess the R8 is pretty low on their priority list. A sub $70 BB gun surly doesn't have anywhere near the profit margin that their firearms lines have.

Rob41 said:

...A sub $70 BB gun surly doesn't have anywhere near the profit margin that their firearms lines have.

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A joke, right? The S&W M&P R8 has a MSRP of $1329. The hot link on the model designation is a sort of robo-advertisement.

I don't have first-hand knowledge, but I'd wager S&W's manufacturing priorities tend toward the products that are selling like hotcakes:

M&P plastic semi-autos, and J-frames.

they're going to build what they they sell the most. money is the bottom line. i waited for a model 327, 2" for 2 years.

I would guess it is a complex decision - the sales/marketing end probably has a lot to do with it, but available factory resources (equipment, materials, personnel) also factor in. And they probably have to make such production decisions several months (a year?) ahead of time.

The good news is you are getting the R8 you wanted - don't anyone hold their breath for the next Python production run .

Unfortunately you've set your sights on a high dollar handgun with limited marketability. You'll never read a headline stating that S&W just produced their one millionth M&P R8. Because of that, if you truly want one you'll go where you find it and bring a briefcase full of money. That is why collectors are collectors and why they're so thrilled to purchase a grail gun.

5Wire said:

A joke, right? The S&W M&P R8 has a MSRP of $1329. The hot link on the model designation is a sort of robo-advertisement.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I clicked on the highlighted "M&P R8" in your original post and it goes straight to the bb gun.

Rob41 said:

Google is not always your friend, lol. Must have been a BB replica I looked at.

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Yup, but is wasn't google's fault or yours. The *S&W M&P R8* in the original post was click bait to an advertising patron.

Lol, I just changed my wording hoping folks would realize what I did. Now I know they aren't a link by the posters. Doh! Guess I was the last to figure it out.

Robo Clickbait for S&W M&P R8 wherever that character string is found, I guess.

Rob41 said:

Lol, I just changed my wording hoping folks would realize what I did. Now I know they aren't a link by the posters. Doh! Guess I was the last to figure it out.

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Don't worry, there'll be others.

Like any manufacturer S&Ws manufacturing priority is making most of what sells best. For them that is M&P pistols, M&P ARs, and J Frames.

But there should never be a problem getting whatever is in their catalog at any time. Anything they currently make is always on Gunbroker in multiple numbers. So anything you want is easily purchased online...Gunbroker, Bud's, GrabaGun, Kygunco. In fact Kygunco not only always has every S&W available, they have them at amazing prices. And if a model happens to be on sale, incredible prices.

Harrydale,

It is certainly true that S&W does NOT crank out R8s all day every day. They also respond to orders they get from big wholesalers and high volume retailers like Buds. Your LGS is probably at the low end on volume and doesn't get allocated one gun for you.

It's a hard cold world but the logic is the guys that sell a lot of product get more product. If you are determined to buy from your LGS have him buy the gun from Buds and then your LGS can resell to you. If you don't do this you could wait a very long time.

I don't know anything about their priorities as a whole but based on my experience with machine shop manufacturing , I'd have to guess that the machinery/lines used to make things like the shield /M&P/ M&P 15's etc would not use the same equipment as the lines used to produce all steel revolvers. Totally different animals with totally different process and materials requirements. The only potential common need/bottle neck I could see is in personnel available to assemble, inspect, test etc.

I'd further aguess that the shortage you see on some of these high end revolvers is based on a few high volume distributors/shops getting pick of the litter on factory inventory.

I believe you would need to know basically what the machine/workflow of the plant looks like. This is what drives schedules honestly. The sales staff will push and push but production flow has to do with tooling and set up. Re-tooling and dialing in production machine centers takes time and money so it's smart to try and maximize part designs so they overlap and integrated into various models. Not always possible so guns with limited market share that consist of atypical parts may well set out of the production stream for a while. Bottom line is factories will tell you they will make your custom gun but in reality it just ain't economically prudent to jump around with your tooling and machine centers.

Déjà vu for me, with a 3" 686 Plus, that I searched for two years.
New ones were out of stock in every brick-and-mortar store, locally and on-line. When it showed up, they all got it in stock simultaneously. Then it sold out, and now no one has it. While looking for the 3", I noticed the same availability frequency with the 2.5" version.

Extrapolation suggests a two year production rotation for certain product lines. After searching two years, I bought the first one I saw, from Hyatts, unwilling to wait another two years in case I missed the chance. At my age and health, I keep my time horizons short.

Harrydale said:

For a couple of years now I have been wanting to buy a new M&P R8 from my LGS. So far his distributors tell him they don't have any to sell, can't get any from the factory. The other day I see Bud's Guns have them for sale and I also got an email from Bud's Guns saying a gun I had on a wish list since May of 2014 is now available, the M&P R8. I am going to wait and buy from my LGS..............eventually. I am not asking for comment about where or when I should buy this gun.

I have been in manufacturing most of my adult life so I understand how they may have 4 or 5 "lines" to make guns and that they would have to do "change-overs" to have runs of certain models.

What I am wondering is does anyone have any first hand knowledge how S&W determines priorities on which gun to make?

Thanks in advance for you input and knowledge.

Harrydale

Click to expand...

I understand your problem but I have an alternate opinion of what you are observing. You stated you have been waiting a couple years for an R8. The R8 is actually a fairly popular model. I would estimate I have had the opportunity to acquire at least 10 different R8's in the past couple years. None however were at my Local Gun Store.

It's taken me a while to figure it out but the closest gun store to where I live seems to me more a hobby for the owner than a business. They are poorly stocked and expensive and routinely get bad Yelp reviews. The owner has a couple of his buddies working there and he only comes in when he feels like it. I think I would be waiting forever if I wanted them to get me an R8.

The second closest gun store has a different story but the same outcome. No R8's ever. The third closest might get me an R8 but I'm sure it would take a couple years at least.

So where did I see these 10 R8's? I live in a developing megalopolis. Thankfully not in the center but at the edge. So in my travels I stop at various gun stores and check out the S&W revolvers because that is my thing. I have found 3 gun stores that have been able to keep a stock of S&W (and other) revolvers available even at the times of shortage a couple years ago and now they seem to be absolutely bursting with revolvers. None of them are very close to where I live but they are close enough. There is also a 4th gun store that is not at quite the same level but has managed to keep a respectable stock.

So what is up? How come some gun stores have nothing and others have plenty? I believe it is because they have working relationships with many different distributors. Talking to the manager of the best stocked store I learned that they frequently go to the trade shows like SHOT. So it is easy for them to meet and make connections with all the different distributors. I think the closest gun stores to me probably deal with one distributor of S&W's and since their volume is so low they probably are well down on the list before they get to choose something available.

So this long story is to say, in this case, I think the fault lies with your LGS, not S&W. S&W does do runs, as you said, but for a popular gun like the R8, I would estimate they have done a few runs while you have been waiting.

My advice is to broaden your search area. Also some things are a lot easier to get from places like Bud's.

distribution........

ridgewalker is about spot on,, the problem is NOT with the manufacturer,but far MORE often between the distributors and their network of dealer that they have to "feed", if the local shop does NOT spend enough money with any given distributor, not likely they are going to get the once in a while "special order"...yes only so many to go around....if you get ANY chance from ANY other source, best to go with it, hey they did bother to inform you that one came in and was in stock, cannot ask for more than that...........
besides far too many "dealers" will NOT bother to shop around, or TRY very hard to find something,we see this ALL the time........