CANTED barrels?

I was contemplating ordering 1-2 new revolvers before the end of the year, could someone fill me in on all these canted barrel problems?

thanks in advance

Canted barrels are nothing new. Virtually every S&W I have owned in 50+ years that had a grooved rib and top strap has been very slightly canted, judged by looking at the grooves. I suspect this has always been true of the non-grooved ones, too, although it is not as visible to the obsessive-compulsives.

Rarely is canting a problem, but occasionally there are examples that are at best annoying and at worst will cause the gun to shoot left or right because of the misaligned front sight. The likely problem guns can be very easily spotted in the gun shop by sighting down the barrel and seeing the cocked front sight. If the grooves on top are slightly misaligned but the front sight appears straight when you line it up with the rear, that is, for all intents and purposes, completely normal -- and if you send it back to S&W they will say so. Many folks shoot such revolvers for years with complete satisfaction, unaware any "problem" exists until they read about it in this forum.

Some revolvers have been observed with canted barrels, no figures on the number or percentage. It is readily apparent if you sight down the gun at the shop prior to purchase.

The advantage of the 2 Piece barrel is that the outer Shroud is Keyed to the frame and Straight so it does not matter how the inner barrel Indexes. Luv my M69

Pisgah said:

Many folks shoot such revolvers for years with complete satisfaction, unaware any "problem" exists until they read about it in this forum.

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Same with cylinder-barrel gaps.

Last 3 revolvers I bought have 2 piece barrels so the front sights are as vertical as my visual acuity allows. Same with my 63-5 and it's 1 piece barrel.

I hope that my low post count and my opinion on this matter doesn't earn me an early bad reputation but I'll share my experience on this matter. In the last month I have had my LGS order 3 different Smiths for me, a 642 pro series, a 986 2 1/2" performance center and a 327 TRR8 performance center. The 642 not only had a canted barrel but was terribly out of time. The 986, a performance center gun also had a canted barrel and was out of time, and all of the screw slots were buggerred....horribly. The 327 was the only one that seemed as though it would function properly, the barrel was straight (2 piece barrel tho), however once again the screw heads were buggered. The trigger over travel pin was also ill fitted. The 642 was the cheapest of the group but the other 2 were quite pricey. Not at all what one would expect out of a "performance center". If trained gunsmiths cant use the correct screwdrivers or manage to time a cylynder correctly on a $1K revolver then why should we expect the barrels to not be canted. All that to say I wouldn't special order anything unless I had the ability to turn it down if it showed up as a dud.

hillbillydruggist said:

I was contemplating ordering 1-2 new revolvers before the end of the year, could someone fill me in on all these canted barrel problems?

thanks in advance

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I don't understand.... are you actually considering holding off purchasing a new S&W revolver based on what you read online?

I own/owned 5 S&W revolvers. 6" 686-4, 4" 686-6, Model 617-6, 4" HB model 10-8, and a 642-2. Not one of them has a canted barrel nor have I ever seen one that has... The only time I've "heard" about a canted barrel was....well on these forums.

Sidecar Mike said:

I hope that my low post count and my opinion on this matter doesn't earn me an early bad reputation but I'll share my experience on this matter. In the last month I have had my LGS order 3 different Smiths for me, a 642 pro series, a 986 2 1/2" performance center and a 327 TRR8 turn it down if it showed up as a dud.

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It seems as though your LGS has it out for you, 3 NIB guns with all those problems is truly unacceptable. One gun with a problem, but not three. Do you still have them? were they sent back to S&W? Hopefully they get is squared away. Be Safe,

Like Pisgah said, canted barrels are nothing new & typically are because they were under or over tightened resulting in an under-clocked or over-clocked barrel, relative to the frame.

Will I don't discount that the vulger guy in video might have had an unique trouble (I gave up watching) it's not the common reason for the trouble.

And as mentioned, the problem is not limited to standard production revolvers. My 686+ is canted but my 625PC (Performance Center) is also canted. I wholeheartedly agree that in this day & age there's got to be a better (foolproof?) way of installing a barrel & it not be canted.

And the problem isn't (wasn't) limited to S&W or started just a few years ago either. My Colt Detective Special, mfd. 1977, has a canted barrel. Took me years to realize it wasn't because of me why it shot several inches to the left, even at close range. Doubt I can get them to fix it now.

OP; Inspect before you buy is always the best plan, but most people who've had this problem, & couldn't live with it, got it resolved by S&W.

.

vipermd said:

It seems as though your LGS has it out for you, 3 NIB guns with all those problems is truly unacceptable. One gun with a problem, but not three. Do you still have them? were they sent back to S&W? Hopefully they get is squared away. Be Safe,

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I work part time at the shop or else I might think that as well When the 642 came in there was also a Ruger sp101 on the order for me as well that had issues (cylinder rubbing the forcing cone) so I thought it might be the distributor but the other 2 came from different distributors. I didn't buy any of them, they all went back except for the TRR8. It went out on the shelf since it functioned and only had cosmetic issues...issues that I wasn't willing to pay over $1k for. A joke between me and the store owner is that the TRR8 was ordered for stock because if it had in fact been a special order for me it would have arrived with the cylinder installed backwards . I'm that guy though that's going to the 1 in a million item that's defective, no matter what it is, not just limited to guns. Murphy and me go way back. So far though its been limited to Pro or Performance Center revolvers, the standard models seem to have more experienced people assembling them.

On a traditional barrel (not two piece), it is easy to fix with a barrel wrench. They are often ever so mildly canted. So little it does not matter or not even noticed without close inspection. Have revolvers going back to the 1960s or 70s I can find a small misalignment on. This issue way way overblown on the internet. I saw a video of smith installing barrels and they just screwed them on by hand with a tool and did not closely inspect them when they did it. They just quickly eyeball them I think.

RGVshooter said:

I don't understand.... are you actually considering holding off purchasing a new S&W revolver based on what you read online?

I own/owned 5 S&W revolvers. 6" 686-4, 4" 686-6, Model 617-6, 4" HB model 10-8, and a 642-2. Not one of them has a canted barrel nor have I ever seen one that has... The only time I've "heard" about a canted barrel was....well on these forums.

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not really online, but I was waiting t see what y'all said on the forum

hillbillydruggist said:

not really online, but I was waiting t see what y'all said on the forum

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Well, ya posted on the forum "canted barrel" therefore everyone who had/claimed a problem with their barrels will chime in convening the impression that there may be a more widespread problem.. And this is probably true with anything online nowadays. if you look for something you'll find it, whether good or bad. All I'm saying is in the past 29 yrs of shooting revolvers i haven't seen it in person nor experienced it.

But if your LGS showed you more than one handgun with a "canted barrel" then I would question who their supplier is... I mean, even a well stocked Bass pro shop or all the years of shopping at "The Academy" I haven't seen not one canted barrel in the display or elsewhere.

I lost count on how many Vintage S&W Revolvers I own but suffice it to say, a fair amount. I can not speak for anyone else here but I own NONE with what I'd consider a Canted Barrel. Not saying that they NEVER had a vintage Smith come out with a canted barrel, but I do believe the problem has increased many fold on the modern ones. What leads me to this opinion is just how many threads there have been over the last few years regarding this. Not very scientific, however I never remember seeing or hearing about canted barrels as an "issue" in the 60's - early 90's.

Just ONE of the reasons I only buy Vintage Smiths.

I have five S&W revolvers (3 new, 2 vintage). None have any problems.

I work in a gunshop and have not seen a canted barrel come through in over a year. Come to think of it, I believe posts here of such defects from customers have seemed to slow way down too. I think the problem may be OBE.

BLUEDOT37 said:

My 686+ is canted but my 625PC (Performance Center) is also canted.

My Colt Detective Special, mfd. 1977, has a canted barrel. Took me years to realize it wasn't because of me why it shot several inches to the left, even at close range.

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Canted barrels (mine) don't jump out at you. They're often very subtle.

When I bought my 686+ I scrutinized it & noticed a small difference where the barrel shoulders line up to the frame edges & thought it would be insignificant. Extensive shooting required the rear sight be adjusted near fully right to center it's groups. (This issue aside, this revolver is an EXCELLENT shooter, groups well, & is as accurate or better than my 627PC. I have no plans to send it back to the factory for repair.)

The 625PC was a similar story but with less noticeable differences. Again, I thought no biggie. While it's rear sight windage adjustment is less than the 686's it's still significant & unlike any of my other revolvers.

As mentioned, you can sometimes see the "off vertical" alignment in the front sight's blade in the rear sight's notch, but it's subjective sometimes, but worth looking for.

I own almost two dozen revolvers & three have canted barrels that cause it's POI to not correspond to the POA requiring windage adjustment.

A used revolver with the windage cranked way over would be the first hint that the barrel is canted, irregardless of how severe the alignment looked off.

For those who haven't encountered this issue I say "Good For You", but don't discount that the problem exists or that S&W couldn't do a better job on it's QC to eliminate it's bad press.

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Much harder to detect under or over clocked barrels when they don't have ribs, such as the usual vintage "pencil barrel" M&P .38s. But I've plenty of "vintage" (and "modern") revolvers with barrel ribs that show slight theoretical misalignment. As long as they shoot where they look, why worry?

Worst example I ever had was a late '40s 2" barrels .38 Spl. M&P that shot a good 8" off to the right at 25 yards. Of course, the short sight radius didn't help matters!

Usually, I just use the action and barrel vise to sort the ones that need too much offset of the rear sight if they otherwise shoot OK. That old action wrench is well "experienced" after all these years...

Older Smiths can have canted barrels.
Cutting to the chase here I have two issues to report:

1 - I had a 681 no dash with an obvious canted barrel, confirmed by others in my local FFL

2 - I now own a 686+-6 3 inch with a perfectly straight barrel BUT with a slightly off-centered rear sight leaf and sight assembly towards the left of the frame (milled wrong?) which results in the need to drift the rear sight towards the right (as if the barrel was canted.) Anyone have this QC problem on their revolver?

Here are the details.

I bought a 681 no-dash on Gun Broker back in mid May. It had no M engraved on the crane so I agreed with the seller that I'd pay for the gun if they'd send it of to Smith and Wesson for the recall. But then it sat at Smith and Wesson for 3 1/2 months. The seller gave me the serial number so I was able to cal S&W a few times and the customer service person was apologetic but had no explanation for such a length of time for a factory recall.

I FINALLY received a phone call from S&W who mistook me as the sended of the gun. He explained that I did not include a note with the gun and therefore it sat in the custom shop for months. UGH. No, it was the SELLER who did not include the note, not me!

I FINALLY got the gun....I inspected it at my FFL and it had a canted barrel!!! After almost 4 months I had no heart to call the seller OR to send it back to S&W. The shop owner and another customer confirmed the canted barrel. I walked out telling myself I could live with it....Maybe it'll shoot POA. But I know myself too much. I looked at it in my car. I aimed it at the floor and all I saw was a canted front sight pretty far to the left.

I drove towards my home but instead of going home I swerved towards another shop. I walked in and traded it for a 686-6 3 inch non fluted cylinder. It was a used model and the barrel was NOT canted. The store looked over my 681 and gave me $360.00 towards the 686 with a $200.00 balance. I walked out with the 686 with the perfectly straight barrel.

So how is my newish 686? This thing shoots GREAT but....While the barrel is as straight as an arrow, I still needed to click my rear sight approx 5 clicks to the right.... not all the way but enough for me to spend some time trying to figure out why. I concluded my particular 686 has the sight leaf sitting slightly off to the left which requires the right clicks.

At some point, I might take some pics and post them here for other's opinions but I cannot find a single discussion on off-centered rear sight assemblies on S&W revolvers. From a rest, this 686 was putting rounds into a single hole at 21 feet so the rifling and crown are perfect. Had I needed to right click my rear all the way to the right, I might be more inclined to make a bigger issue of it but it is not all the way to the right.

I'm thinking this off centered sight assembly is another QC issue at least on this sample and I'm wondering if anyone else has this on their revolver.

I have installed a few barrels. No huge number, but over 10 but not 20. Didn't count, Some I have done a couple times for various reasons. I am a tinkerer. Anyway, my observations.

The rib lines on barrel and on frame sometimes just don't match perfectly. Simply machined a little bit different.

I have turned a barrel in and setup so I can look right at the top of frame and barrel and got the ribs as close as possible. Taken the frame wrench off and barrel out of blocks and hey front sight isn't "perfect". Either the ramp or the blade is a little off.

Some times I think it is what is known as a stacking problem. Minor tolerance in ramp, sight and rib all work wrong with each other and you have situation where if the rib is perfect the front blade isn't or if blade is rib is not. I shoot using the blade not the rib.

Sometimes the rear sight being a tiny bit off

The human eye is an amazing thing it can actually detect 50 microns. thats .002. That is 1/2 the thickness of a piece of paper. Looking down the rear sight with the front sight centered you will notice almost any imperfection.

I think some of the canted barrel!!!! is simply read to much and worrying that normal tolerances aare a big deal.

I am not saying S&W didn't mess some barrel fit ups. They did. They also got the panic started. They can and should do better. But, part of it is simply canted hysteria.

I got about quite a few S&W, lots of them with the mechanically worthless pin and a even quite a few "PRE" guns. Some are not perfect aligned when I really look hard.