Looking for a gunsmith that can fabricate a cylinder

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Elerius

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I'm looking for a gunsmith or machinist that is capable of crafting a cylinder and barrel from scratch. I know this is a tall order but it's a gun I've thought about building for years, a pet project I'd find very interesting and I'm mostly more concerned with feasibility than cost. The few gunsmiths I've asked already say they can't or wont do this, and at this point it's frustrating enough that I almost want to complete it even if I have to go through a gunsmithing program and learn the machining to do it myself.

Long story short, what I originally wanted was basically a M331 but in a Bodyguard frame with night sights in 327 Federal Magnum in 7 shots if I could get it, or possibly a K frame in 8 shot. There are no scandium Bodyguards so I'd settle for a 638 in 32 Mag. Then a new round came out that I was very interested in, 30 Super Carry. It seemingly does for 9mm what 32 Magnum does for 38 Special, give you nearly the same power with more capacity at the expense of higher pressure. Much bigger advantage in capacity if chambered for a revolver. So I want to build one in a 2½" K frame that would hold 8-12 rounds, held by moon clips. With a M315 scandium frame I think it would be an amazing carry piece, and I could do the same thing but smaller in a J frame.

If anyone knows for sure a gunsmith that could put this project together, I'd really like to get into contact. Bowen doesn't work on Smiths anymore, I haven't heard anything from Cylinder and Slide or S&W, who I emailed even asking about what a minimum number of guns for them to produce a run would be, like a distributor does for runs of 100 or so and I don't have high hopes for them building a one off for me. There must be others who can do this and if there isn't I'd really, really like to know what it is about machining a cylinder to fit that is so intensely problematic in the computer and CNC age. Any genuine advice other than giving up would be much appreciated.
 
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That would seem to make the most sense, but none of them have said that except about rebarrelling alloy J frames. Korth, whom I was told a couple years ago might do it, just says it's "not in their wheelhouse" and other just say they don't work on cylinders
 
I know a guy who COULD do it. I don't know if he would. His name is Ken Genneco. He is an honest-to-god gun MAKER. His shop is in Stockton, CA. I have done a modest amount of business with him over 20 + years. He is NOT fast but he is good. Also not cheap.
 
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You're talking J frame initially. First off, I doubt anyone is gonna volunteer to build a .327 Federal on an alloy frame. While S&W does build a .357 on an alloy frame, the maximum pressure of the .327 is much higher. Then there's the recoil issue. Yeah, S&W builds what the customers want, but there's definitely a pain tolerance level and it's a whole lot cheaper to let a manufacturer do the R&D on such a product.

Highly doubt you'd be able to fit your desired capacities in the J & K frames, the plus series guns are in the L & N frames.
 
.22 lr in a K frame holds 10 rounds. No way you’re going to get anywhere close to 12 rounds of a bigger cartridge in that cylinder.
 
reddog81 said:
.22 lr in a K frame holds 10 rounds. No way you’re going to get anywhere close to 12 rounds of a bigger cartridge in that cylinder.
Click to expand...

If THAT IS TRUE (it probably is),,
then the first thing you need is a CAD designer that can design the cylinder.

You have a MUCH better chance of having YOUR design made,,
compared to having a concept built that is "STILL IN THE VAPORS"

I have had LOTS of projects proposed to me,,
by people that want me to do the designing, and fabrication.

Design is totally different than building.
 
The number of shots, caliber, and frame material was always highly dependant on who can actually build what, that's why it's so aggravating. I can't even come up with a final plan until this is done. If S&W were to build me a one off, my options open and things are much easier.

30 Super Carry is about 51k psi, possibly too much for scandium. However in my research I found that they produced a M940 in 356TSW which is about the same pressure albeit in a steel J frame. If I could only get 8 rounds into a steel K frame, I'd go with that or possibly a M242 if the capacity gains would be worth carrying an L frame. If everyone refuses to work on alloy or scandium, another dead end.

Thank you for the leads, I will send out some more inquiries. If I end up having to fabricate all this myself maybe I'll just try to create something truly unique out of a cut down 30 carbine, Ruger makes a Blackhawk in this caliber.
 
Ruger lists a number of revolvers off the shelf in .327 Federal. You are NOT going to break one either.
 
First of all S&W DID make a J frame 327. The 632 was stainless

I got a 431 which is a Scandium J frame 32H&R. Then I picked up a new J frame 32 H&R cylinder off Ebay. Only loose 32 cylinder for the new longer length J frame windows I have seen. Anyway once I had it in hand I reamed it to 327 and stuck it in the 431 for a bit then put it and a 32 barrel in a alloy 642 frame with a steel yoke. A hammer less 6 shot alloy 327 mag. It works fine. Whooppeee. It needed a stainless clip added over the B/C gap or I believe it would have cut the top strap severely in short order. While the recoil is manageable it is sharp. I am not recoil sensitive and fire 5-7 cylinder loads of 45 acps from my snub 325s regularly. That little gun with 327s is harder to get back on target than the 45. I have decided to carry 32 H&Rs in it.

So I have not figured out if you could stick 7 rounds of 327 in a J frame, but I have figured out one with an alloy frame is difficult enough to control that a 32 H&H is a better choice for self defense.

But, just for fun lets turn to the 7 round question. Out comes my 431 and a set 9of calibers. The thickness between the out side of a chamber is .0675 and between the chambers there is .0685. I already know the answer to 7 is no way. there is only .0685x6=.411 of steel left and as a 327 case has an OD of .375 you would only have .411-.375=.036 of steel to divide 7 ways. LOL NOT GONNA HAPPEN

A J frame cylinder only has a 1.306 OD so even if you kicked the chambers out 0.0175 and only left a unbelievably thin .0500 outer wall you would still not gain enough near enough to have the same .050 between the chambers.

Ya, they started sticking stick in 8 22 lr in a J frame. A 22 lr has a case od of .226 and 24,000psi max

You might be able to squeeze 7 in a K frame cylinder. 8 or more is NOT gonna happen NO way no how. Get a set of calibers a K 38, measure and do the math But. even a 7 rounder would cost you very dearly. I believe someone could fabricate a 7 shot K frame cylinder. But even at just $50 an hour it would cost you a couple thousand bucks.

Turn a piece of heat treated 4140 to correct OD. Bore and ream the yoke hole leaving the meat at one end to needed to broach the shape that keep ejector rod basically lined up. Set the piece up in my rotary table and while I do not think you could use the divider to make the pilot holes for chambers 51.429 (which it isn't accurate to) but you could figure it out by degrees of turn on the control screw. Drill the pilot holes. and ream the pilots to 327 mag. Then mill in recess for extractor. You can get totally un cut K frame extractors from Numerich so you could mill 7 chamber cuts in one of those. The time consumption part would be figuring out and machining the ratchet teeth. Then I would mount the "cylinder" in a frame and stick a threaded insert with a .312 hole in its center in where the barrel mounts I could then put a .312 shaft though the hole into each throat one at a time and coat the cylinder and use a cylinder stop to press up into the marking agent and mark exactly where that chambers stop notch should be. Then I could cut the stop notches with a using a key way cuter of correct diameter and depth. The lead ins could be cut with a regular end mil of right od.

YA I been thinking about how to make a cylinder for a while now

I would not even think of doing it for 2K and I doubt anyone else would either. On tiny mistake anywhere in the process and you would have to start over.
 
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steelslaver said:
First of all S&W DID make a J frame 327. The 632 was stainless

I got a 431 which is a Scandium J frame 32H&R. Then I picked up a new J frame 32 H&R cylinder off Ebay. Only loose 32 cylinder for the new longer length J frame windows I have seen. Anyway once I had it in hand I reamed it to 327 and stuck it in the 431 for a bit then put it and a 32 barrel in a alloy 642 frame with a steel yoke. A hammer less 6 shot alloy 327 mag. It works fine. Whooppeee. It needed a stainless clip added over the B/C gap or I believe it would have cut the top strap severely in short order. While the recoil is manageable it is sharp. I am not recoil sensitive and fire 5-7 cylinder loads of 45 acps from my snub 325s regularly. That little gun with 327s is harder to get back on target than the 45. I have decided to carry 32 H&Rs in it.

So I have not figured out if you could stick 7 rounds of 327 in a J frame, but I have figured out one with an alloy frame is difficult enough to control that a 32 H&H is a better choice for self defense.

But, just for fun lets turn to the 7 round question. Out comes my 431 and a set 9of calibers. The thickness between the out side of a chamber is .0675 and between the chambers there is .0685. I already know the answer to 7 is no way. there is only .0685x6=.411 of steel left and as a 327 case has an OD of .375 you would only have .411-.375=.036 of steel to divide 7 ways. LOL NOT GONNA HAPPEN

A J frame cylinder only has a 1.306 OD so even if you kicked the chambers out 0.0175 and only left a unbelievably thin .0500 outer wall you would still not gain enough near enough to have the same .050 between the chambers.

Ya, they started sticking stick in 8 22 lr in a J frame. A 22 lr has a case od of .226 and 24,000psi max

You might be able to squeeze 7 in a K frame cylinder. 8 or more is NOT gonna happen NO way no how. Get a set of calibers a K 38, measure and do the math But. even a 7 rounder would cost you very dearly. I believe someone could fabricate a 7 shot K frame cylinder. But even at just $50 an hour it would cost you a couple thousand bucks.

Turn a piece of heat treated 4140 to correct OD. Bore and ream the yoke hole leaving the meat at one end to needed to broach the shape that keep ejector rod basically lined up. Set the piece up in my rotary table and while I do not think you could use the divider to make the pilot holes for chambers 51.429 (which it isn't accurate to) but you could figure it out by degrees of turn on the control screw. Drill the pilot holes. and ream the pilots to 327 mag. Then mill in recess for extractor. You can get totally un cut K frame extractors from Numerich so you could mill 7 chamber cuts in one of those. The time consumption part would be figuring out and machining the ratchet teeth. Then I would mount the "cylinder" in a frame and stick a threaded insert with a .312 hole in its center in where the barrel mounts I could then put a .312 shaft though the hole into each throat one at a time and coat the cylinder and use a cylinder stop to press up into the marking agent and mark exactly where that chambers stop notch should be. Then I could cut the stop notches with a using a key way cuter of correct diameter and depth. The lead ins could be cut with a regular end mil of right od.

YA I been thinking about how to make a cylinder for a while now

I would not even think of doing it for 2K and I doubt anyone else would either. On tiny mistake anywhere in the process and you would have to start over.
Click to expand...

This quandary of whether it's worth all this to squeeze only 7 rounds of 32 Magnum is why I didn't pursue the project a few years ago. Now that 30 Super Carry exists, it changes the capacity equation. If I really wanted I think I could have a M648 bored to .30. That's my 8 rounds right there, but I'd still need to get it in an alloy frame for weight savings, which the M315 is the only possible candidate at that pressure, and possibly opens up the J frame to a 7th round. I could use a M649 for that, get the Bodyguard frame, and still handle the pressure of .30SC. Several thousand dollars is an acceptable price for this cylinder to be made for a gun I'll carry for decades especially when a custom 1911 can run you $5k by itself
 
Racer X said:
you can hammer on Mongo's skull with a Ruger GP100 like you can with a S&W 5906 when you run out of bullets.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, folks continue to believe this nonsense and these kind of things are happening all too often.

This is not my revolver, nor my image but a search will bring up many Ruger revolvers that folks have successfully destroyed.

Kevin
 

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As I stated and proved above no mater how much you or anyone else wants or tries, you CAN NOT fit 7 rounds of 327 in a J frame cylinder.

IF you bored an 8 round 648 to 327 mag or 30 super carry and fired it the cylinder would no longer be one piece. The base dia of a 22 mag is .2455 and the base dia of the 327 mag is .337 and the 30 super carry is even larger at .342. So reaming to 327 mag would remove .0915 between chambers and the super carry .0965. If there was enough metal to achieve that S&W could have stuck another 22 mag in the cylinder as 8 gaps at .0965 is .772 which would be plenty of room for another .2445 based case that operates at 24,000 psi. The did not because there is simply NOT THAT MUCH MATERIAL between the chambers.

On top of that the super carry is actually just slightly ballistically inferior to the 327.mag. Its only advantage is being rimless.

A K frame cylinder has an OD of just 1.446. If you moved the chambers out as far as possible to get enough room between the chambers, but, kept the outside wall the same thickness as a J frame 32 cylinder's .0675 what would happen? First of all to do that you would need to make an off center barrel with the bore high to get it to line up with chambers IF you could fit in that many chambers Anyway Here is the math

1.446(cylinder OD)-2(.0675 wall thickness on both sides of cylinder)=1.446-0.135=1.311 that is the diameter of the outside of the chambers Now we need to subtract the diameter of a chamber (1/2 from each side of cylinder) so 1.311-.337 (327 mag)=.974 This would be the diameter of the center of 327 mag chamber circle that would have .0675 walls. Now take this times 3.14 to get the circumference of that circle and you have 1.305836. You want 8 chambers, so divide by 8 and you have .382295. Lets round that up to a .3823 per chamber. If you ream a .337 chamber in that you would only have .0453 between the chambers. NOPE not even close to enough to contain 45,000psi and you would only have .0446 between chambers and .0668 outside walls you reamed to 30 super carry. Actually. you would have slightly more meat between the chambers because the way the chambers far outsides align to each other. BUT that is nowhere near the additional .0299 needed to make the needed .0675. Ream a 648 to 327 and YOU WILL get a KERBOOM. Absolutely no doubt about it

So like I said earlier 8 rounds of 327 WILL NOT work in a K frame cylinder and neither will the slightly larger super carry.

It does not mater how good of gunsmith or machinist you are or can hire neither will be able to defy the laws of mathematics and physics

I been scheming on how to put 6 rounds of 45 acp in a S&W L frame and it will not work either. CA does it by having a smaller ratchet.
 
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Pisgah said:
I want a phaser, myself.
Click to expand...
I'm not interested in any random weapon like a phaser or blaster. No, I prefer a more elegant and balanced weapon. Give me the lightsaber! :D
As for blowing up a firearm, none are indestructible. Cram enough powder into the case and you will end up with a pile of junk and possibly a hospital bill.
 
steelslaver said:
As I stated and proved above no mater how much you or anyone else wants or tries, you CAN NOT fit 7 rounds of 327 in a J frame cylinder.

IF you bored an 8 round 648 to 327 mag or 30 super carry and fired it the cylinder would no longer be one piece. The base dia of a 22 mag is .2455 and the base dia of the 327 mag is .337 and the 30 super carry is even larger at .342. So reaming to 327 mag would remove .0915 between chambers and the super carry .0965. If there was enough metal to achieve that S&W could have stuck another 22 mag in the cylinder as 8 gaps at .0965 is .772 which would be plenty of room for another .2445 based case that operates at 24,000 psi. The did not because there is simply NOT THAT MUCH MATERIAL between the chambers.

On top of that the super carry is actually just slightly ballistically inferior to the 327.mag. Its only advantage is being rimless.

A K frame cylinder has an OD of just 1.446. If you moved the chambers out as far as possible to get enough room between the chambers, but, kept the outside wall the same thickness as a J frame 32 cylinder's .0675 what would happen? First of all to do that you would need to make an off center barrel with the bore high to get it to line up with chambers IF you could fit in that many chambers Anyway Here is the math

1.446(cylinder OD)-2(.0675 wall thickness on both sides of cylinder)=1.446-0.135=1.311 that is the diameter of the outside of the chambers Now we need to subtract the diameter of a chamber (1/2 from each side of cylinder) so 1.311-.337 (327 mag)=.974 This would be the diameter of the center of 327 mag chamber circle that would have .0675 walls. Now take this times 3.14 to get the circumference of that circle and you have 1.305836. You want 8 chambers, so divide by 8 and you have .382295. Lets round that up to a .3823 per chamber. If you ream a .337 chamber in that you would only have .0453 between the chambers. NOPE not even close to enough to contain 45,000psi and you would only have .0446 between chambers and .0668 outside walls you reamed to 30 super carry. Actually. you would have slightly more meat between the chambers because the way the chambers far outsides align to each other. BUT that is nowhere near the additional .0299 needed to make the needed .0675. Ream a 648 to 327 and YOU WILL get a KERBOOM. Absolutely no doubt about it

So like I said earlier 8 rounds of 327 WILL NOT work in a K frame cylinder and neither will the slightly larger super carry.

It does not mater how good of gunsmith or machinist you are or can hire neither will be able to defy the laws of mathematics and physics

I been scheming on how to put 6 rounds of 45 acp in a S&W L frame and it will not work either. CA does it by having a smaller ratchet.
Click to expand...

Well a few of the responses from gunsmiths have said what I want is possible, they just can't do cylinder work or won't. You can figure this out by just tracing a circle of a K frame cylinder and add in 8 shells of 32 Magnum. I'm fine with the 21k PSI of that caliber, I don't necessarily need 327 Fed. There is plenty of space for the cylinder walls, so I'm not sure what to tell you. The M648 is 8 shot 22, but so is the M317 in J frame.

Smith & Wesson does or does not do things based on what they think they can sell, not whether they are technically feasible.
 
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