Accuracy is coming: Apex M&P Barrels

Accuracy...

I'd like to see a before and after the Apex barrel install comparison at 25 and 50 yards with the same ammo. I usually don't try to judge accuracy inside of 25 yards with handguns. Anyone done such a thing yet?

Here is the link to my previous post in this thread. There are a number of people in this thread reporting results.

TacticalReload said:

Quick update.

I ordered and fitted an Apex SDI barrel into my M&P9 4.25" Performance Center. Here are the results. I shot from 20 yards (max distance at my range). I didn't have sandbags so I braced my wrists on my soft range bag which was not a proper rest but was as close to a reasonable approximation as I could put to use. Same ammo, same day, same gun, same distance -- different barrel. I shot a few different types of ammo during this session and the results were similar across the board.

Factory OEM barrel:
Glorious ~10" spread!

Best OEM group of the day


Apex Tactical Barrel:




I don't work for Apex. I don't have friends that work at Apex. I didn't receive this barrel for free. Nothing shady is going on here. YMMV.

So all those S&W apologists who immediately jump to blaming the shooter despite whatever evidence is presented to the contrary can put that in their pipes and smoke it. Practice is no doubt going to make someone a better shooter. However, I can practice flapping my arms all day and all night; but no amount of practice will make me ever take flight. Just how widespread the problem is would be anyone's guess, but based on the years of complaints I doubt I'm the only one that has a genuine issue.

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TacticalReload said:

Here is the link to my previous post in this thread. There are a number of people in this thread reporting results.

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That is actually really impressive. I just got my M&P CORE this weekend and I love the accuracy of it, but it seems like it may be able to get even better!

What kind of accuracy are people expecting to get out of the factory barrels? My 9FS was test fired in March of 2011, has the "5RH" barrel and I always score well in USPSA, IDPA. I regularly put 3 rounds withing 2-3" on a 10" steel plate at 15 yards with my 124gr LRN reloads.

This pistol was not made for Bullseye competitions.

palmettostate1 said:

What kind of accuracy are people expecting to get out of the factory barrels? My 9FS was test fired in March of 2011, has the "5RH" barrel and I always score well in USPSA, IDPA. I regularly put 3 rounds withing 2-3" on a 10" steel plate at 15 yards with my 124gr LRN reloads.

This pistol was not made for Bullseye competitions.

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3" at 15 yards is better than I was getting from a benchrest. You can see from the pictures above what I was getting. The "after" pics should be proof enough that it was the gun and not me.

I'm ready, when they offer a 4.25" threaded barrel, after getting settled in to their new facilities, I will order one.

The semi-fit barrel is very easy to install

If you are on the fence about getting an Apex barrel, I can report that is quite easy to install. Watch Randy's YouTube video and get the Dykem and proper file. He explains it very clearly. Take your time and you will have no problem. Go slowly with the file and keep it parallel as he demonstrates.

Here is the results of testing the stock barrel, Storm Lake SS treaded barrel, and the Apex shot off a rest at 20yds. 5 five shot groups. i have some problem with the 4x Simmons scope shifting its settings on the Apex test which was the last of the three test.

Stock barrel
------------------------Worst group Best Group Avg group
Best 4 of 5 shots--------4.458----------1.391-------3.068"
5 of 5 shots--------------5.818----------3.126-------4.579

Storm Lake Barrel
Best of 4 shots-----------2.348---------1.138--------1.556
5 of 5 shots---------------2.993---------1.611--------2.258

Apex semi fitted
Best 4 of 5 shots---------2.145----------1.239--------2.145
5 of 5 shots--------------3.587-----------1.439--------2.229

These were shot with 115gr plated HP X Treme bullets and 5.8gr CFE Pistol. Where I really noticed the difference was the Apex barrel didn't throw flyers the shot that opened the group up was caused by me. The factory barrel would throw two flyers that were way out of the group. I knew these results would be this way before I ran the test the factory barrel's fit is loose and my fit on the Apex is real tight.

yes this is not a target pistol but it is way better now then before and would cut down on misses shooting IDPA od IPSA.

Sorry I got these rows to line up the only way I could figure out how.

I have been shooting IDPA and USPSA for 20 years. If 1" to 2" makes the difference between you hitting and missing the target, you need practice, not a new barrel. Wow, a lot of practice.

People get so wrapped up in buying Band-Aids to make up for poor shooting when all they need is extra ammo and practice. I often see new shooters who bought a Glock or M&P then add $400 in "upgrades" and still could not manage to shoot their own foot if they tried. Then I have to listen to them blame the gun for their misses.

palmettostate1 said:

I have been shooting IDPA and USPSA for 20 years. If 1" to 2" makes the difference between you hitting and missing the target, you need practice, not a new barrel. Wow, a lot of practice.

People get so wrapped up in buying Band-Aids to make up for poor shooting when all they need is extra ammo and practice. I often see new shooters who bought a Glock or M&P then add $400 in "upgrades" and still could not manage to shoot their own foot if they tried. Then I have to listen to them blame the gun for their misses.

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Did you see the pics I posted above? For some of us, the difference was a LOT more than 1 or 2 inches.

Everyone is talking about the 9mm pistols. Are the .40 pistols suffering from the same accuracy problems? I would think a good aftermarket barrel will increase the accuracy of any M&P pistol. Are there any plans to come out with an Apex M&P CORE 40L barrel?

TacticalReload said:

Did you see the pics I posted above? For some of us, the difference was a LOT more than 1 or 2 inches.

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I must be VERY lucky with my FS 9 from made in 2011. When did they first notice the accuracy problems?

I started shooting USPSA in 1988, my L6XX membership number gives some idea of the time frame. I was a mighty poor "B" class shooter back then but you are missing the point TacticalReload is trying to make. This is not a random few 9MMs shooting poor, there is a trend of this. Yes some/most people need to practice more, a lot more, but my Shield is nearly as accurate as my 4.25" CORE. Mine shoots like ****, but I need more practice too. I hate that my CORE needs a barrel or trigger but that is the case.

jbremount said:

Everyone is talking about the 9mm pistols. Are the .40 pistols suffering from the same accuracy problems? I would think a good aftermarket barrel will increase the accuracy of any M&P pistol. Are there any plans to come out with an Apex M&P CORE 40L barrel?

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I had an M&P40, as well, that had no accuracy issues.

palmettostate1 said:

I have been shooting IDPA and USPSA for 20 years. If 1" to 2" makes the difference between you hitting and missing the target, you need practice, not a new barrel. Wow, a lot of practice.

People get so wrapped up in buying Band-Aids to make up for poor shooting when all they need is extra ammo and practice. I often see new shooters who bought a Glock or M&P then add $400 in "upgrades" and still could not manage to shoot their own foot if they tried. Then I have to listen to them blame the gun for their misses.

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Agreed if you are just shooting IDPA then any thing that will shoot a 8" group is find. Lets look at it in a different way. Lets say you hurry the shot and you aim 3" the the right of center on a longer shot your 3" groups is going to put you one down. A tighter grouping would have kept you zero down. I always go for the best I can do no matter what I do. I have shot IDPA and shoot it petty well except I am old a slow and tend to aim to much. I can shoot the lowest points down in a match but the slowest time posted. So I will stick to benchrest pistol and some BE

Spoke to smith and wesson

So, after a comple series of reloads with 115, 124 and 147 gr bullets in several different powder levels from minimum to near max, the best the gun could shoot was just under 2" at 7 yards off hand. So worried it was me I reloaded again and went to a bench and shot a series of ten rounds of each load for a total of 200 rounds. The best average group I was able to get was just over 2.5 inches with the 115gr. bullets and 5.8 gr, of power pistol with a .001 crimp.

Very bothered by this and now at this point sure it's not me but the gun I called Smith and Wesson today. Their response was for that gun (new version performance center ported core m and p in 9mm) the accuracy standard for the gun is 2" at 10 yards from a bench. They did not qualify how many rounds this would need to be. Many of my targets I shot would have several grouped together in either horizontal or vertical strings with one or two flyers.

So I would say my gun is proabbly within their specs, but this is just terrible., I bought the gun for competition. Which means any stage that may have longer shots I have to be absolutely perfect in my sight picture and trigger squeeze or the inherent accuracy of the gun will be misses especially if there are head shots. This means shooting much slower and masking sure the sights are perfect. Which ultimately means you will loose time!

So here is my concern/biggest issue. I purchased the gun for competition, and it's sold as a competition ready gun. Yet their own accuracy standard is less than acceptable for competitive shooting. That just does not make sense to me and I'm totally bummed about my new purchase.

I have seen people claiming that they have spoken with smith and Wesson and what they are stating is the standard was 3" at 25 yards. Which I would be ok with. Not happy but ok. However what I was told was very far from that.

Can anyone confirm that they have actually spoken with them and what they were told.

I wish Apex would come out with a ported barrel to match the slide cuts on the new ported guns so I could fix this and keep the porting.

Went to the range again today, 20 rounds at 25 yards.
I have installed every apex item available for my S&W MP 9mm Performance pro L couldn't be happier with the results and I have put almost 5,000 rounds thru it.

I do have a question for you Randy, the stock coating on the slide in some areas is down to the metal, what do you recommend for re coating the slide. I would like to have mine recoated. It still needs a little help to go into full battery but not like it was when I first installed the apex barrel. But like I said I have put almost 5,000 rounds thru it.

Thanks again!!!

Srruger762 said:

Went to the range again today, 20 rounds at 25 yards.

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Just wondering, what load did you use for the 25-yard test?

I was using the 115g yesterday, I like using the 115g I bought for competition and at the range. the 147g I bought to try it's shoots really good at close range but at longer yards it's ok I think it might be due to the flat nose bullet where the 115g has a ball round nose.
I do use the 147g for my carry pistol because of the little more energy it has at closer range. I wish AE made the 147 in a ball round nose.

Rastoff said:

I'm sure Apex will make some kind of accuracy claim. On their website they are claiming sub 2" groups at 50 yards and sub 1" groups at 25 yards. This is indeed better than what S&W says their barrels will do.

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I find that very hard to believe. I'd have to see them shoot 10 shots at 50 yards. Some of the best custom 1911's won't group that well at 50 yards. It is not common for a pistol that groups 1" at 25 yards to shoot a group twice as big at 50 yards. Usually the groups at 50 yards are much bigger. Of course if Apex is just shooting 3 shots at each distance, it is possible to get those shots to group that small once in a while.