SW advises against using CCI Stiner in the MP 22 Compact due to the length of the round. Is the CCI Velocitor a suitable substitute? If not the Velocitor Is there a decent self defense round for the M&P 22 Compact?

What I will say is that it is better than nothing. CCI Stinger and Mini-Mag's have a good rep. With a .22lr shot placement is absolutely critical. They don't hit hard compared to .380, 9mm, etc. but they can kill.

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

Stinger is the only 22LR I have ever had a FTE or stovepipe. That is the reason I am inquiring about the Velocitor

Its a gun. If you are forced to shoot someone in self defense all the bad guy will be thinking about is "I don't want to get shot again"

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Just hanging with my dogs

I would suggest a high-velocity 40-grain solid point. With the understanding that this is not a 45 auto, that little solid point has a tendency to get in there and wander around.

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Kind regards, Heinz

Me two.
I favor 40 Grain Solid MiniMags for Defensive use.
The Hollow Points out of short barrel guns probably won’t mushroom.
So I take the penetration.

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Federal has their 22lr Punch that is advertised as a defensive round. I do not have the MP22 so I cannot say how it will work, but in my LCPII 22 it is fine.

Mine is 100% on MiniMags.
If I could get enough Velocitors to give it a thorough trial, it would be a worthwhile increase in power. But I'd have to have a lot more than the one box I splurged on.

CCI Velocitors are the same length as Mini-Mags. Only the Stingers are the longer case. You can shoot Stingers in an M&P 15-22 rifle except not the performance center models.

I carry Velocitors in my Ruger SR22 when I carry it in the woods while fishing.

I don't ever recall having a misfire / dud in any CCI .22LR ammo in a good quality and clean firearm.

.

CCI is the most reliable I've ever shot. I prefer high velocity.
For self defense... it really doesn't matter if you shoot Stinger or Velocitor. Both have enough energy to penetrate the cloths and ribcage. If you hit rib, both will break the bone and stop in the tissue.
Both - CCI Stinger and Velocitor will stop within the body, without over penetration.

As ziggidy mentioned, Federal Punch Flat Nose might be a good option, but I cannot tell anything about it - I have never shot it.

Federal Punch, you say?
If I could find some I would try it.
In my Beretta 21a and other small 22s.

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Back in the early days when I had just started out carrying a gun, I chose a Walther PPK/S-22 loaded with CCI Mini Mag 40gr CPB, namely because it cycled 100% reliably and pentrated deep enough in Ballistics Gel Tests to be effective.

I've heard that Velocitors are the best, but I've never shot them, so I can't comment on their reliability.

The only ammo I would advise you to steer clear of is Remington Golden Bullet, which was unreliable, extremely dirty, and once got stuck in the chamber.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

I'm wondering who came with this name for that ammo.
It is indeed "Golden Bullet".. but I'm guessing it works in Golden Firearm only.

But seriously I second Forte Smitten Wesson. This ammo is good for any kind of malfunction drills only.

Yes ... 9mm

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

You can buy it from Federal's website.
I've never seen it at any local stores.

Check out Paul Harrell's youtube videos--he shoots Federal Punch, Winchester Silvertip, CCI Stingers, Minimags and Remington Vipers out of a bunch of .22 pistols. Those videos, in my opinion, provide a lot of information regarding rimfire performance.

I've never fired them from a handgun, but outta my Savage 62F, the .22lr Aguila Super Extra rounds are pretty dang good.

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Paraphrasing Territorial Governor Lew Wallace -
He wrote Ben Hur -

"All calculations based on our experiences elsewhere fail in New Mexico." - Lew Wallace.
Transferring 22 Ammo experiences from Rifles to Revolvers is probably valid.
But when you move to the Small Autos, it’s a Brave New World!

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If I had to carry a 22 for self defense it would be my S&W 22 Compact loaded with 40 grain, round nose, CCI Minimags. If I had to use a 22 for home defense it would be my S&W 617 loaded also loaded with Minimags.

A 22 doesn't have enough power to both expand and penetrate deeply enough to be effective, particularly out of handgun length barrel. What matters most in a 22 is how reliable the round will be. More than any other caliber 22 semiautos tend to be very picky about what round they function reliably with. As a general rule (with some exceptions) I have found that if a 22 will not run reliably with Minimags it probably will not run well with any other type of ammo.

My 22 Compact is the most reliable and least picky 22 pistol I have ever owned. It has been very reliable with any type of high velocity ammo I have tried except for the dud and weak rounds you get with some brands of bulk ammo. But if I had to carry a 22 I would want the most reliable 22 pistol I own loaded with what I have found to be the most reliable 22 ammo. A 22 compact loaded with Minimags.

I would prefer my 617 over the 22 Compact for home defense because I shoot it much better and it has the same 10 round capacity as the 22 Compact. But it is too big and heavy to be a carry gun.

I have better options for both carry and home defense than a 22. But as I get older my guns seem to have more recoil than they used to. Probably because I cannot grip them as hard. I hope I don't get to the point I can no longer shoot the larger calibers well but if I do I will not hesitate to use a 22. It is a whole lot better than nothing.

Here is a visual of Mini-Mags, Velocitors, and Stingers. (Back during the last shortage, I was able to pick up a lot of Stingers at regular prices. Must have a couple of hundred rounds.) Left to right - Mini-Mags, Velocitors, and Stingers. Note the longer casing of the stinger.

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I've had pretty good luck with Aguila HV.





1255 fps

__________________
Mike
S&WCA #3065

Reliable operation is always a concern with a .22 LR handgun owing mostly to ignition issues - my M&P Compact 22 has been very reliable with everything except the ultra-underpowered "quiet" rounds, but I'm sure you'd never use anything from the bulk pile for defensive use. The longer .22 LR cases of the Stingers have been no problem at all in my gun - I did have a problem with Velocitors when my thumb brushed the slide as it operated, but that's hardly on the CCI round.

I've worked on .22 handgun killings with all kinds of rounds - just like with every other handgun, you need shot placement and adequate penetration. Chasing a magic bullet for defensive use in such a gun/caliber uses up time you'd better spend practicing.
Meanwhile, some real-world velocity data for a variety of rounds from this gun can be found here: Best ammo M&P 22 Compact/M&P 15-22

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How God has blessed us!

Lucky Gunner has ballistic gel test information at: https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/poc...-results/#22LR

The CCI Velocitor works fine in my M&P 22 compact and performed reasonably well in the test.

Mini-Mags, the Super Extras from Auguila mentioned above & the PUNCH would be the three types I have had almost universal success with in my 22s, both in rifles and pistols...

These would also be the 1st three that I would test per the original post question as to a "decent (substitute) self defense round"?

We’ve started seeing some coyotes in our suburban neighborhood so Ive been looking at .22 LR defense ammo for critters. Defense rounds aren’t just for criminals, after all.

I would recommend the Personal Defense Punch. Its been very reliable and accurate in my Glock 44. I like the Velocitors and Stingers too, but expansion of the PDP round would do more damage from what Ive seen. In the unlikely event, I have a confrontation with a coyote, I’d only get 1-2 shots off so I’d want the stopping power.

No.

.22 is bad for defense because rimfire inherently has more duds, its design is prone to feeding problems, and the little bullet fails to penetrate adequately. Skip it and get a capable weapon .

He didn't ask about suggestions for a suitable caliber: he asked about 22lr bullets.

Cheers!

P.S. You are totally entitled to express your opinion about the suitability of the 22lr for self defense, but...

Even the question was not about rimfire reliability, it still requires clarification:

Not exactly.
.22LR has been working as defense ammo for over 130 years... and as I know, nothing has changed within human body since 1890's

Everything is about proper usage of 22LR handgun.

I’ve had a 22LR failure to fire as recently as today.
CCI Stinger failed to fire in my new Ruger LCP.
I’ve had similar situations with MiniMags, my preferred 22 Ammo.

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No, the OP asked if there is a decent self defense round for the .22 M&P.

Since, due to the defects I previously raised, there isn't a good .22 LR defense round, logic dictates that there isn't a good .22 LR defense round for the M&P 22.

If .22 was a good defense load, the Secret Service would be using it.

So only the ammunition that the Secret Service uses is good for self defense? Nope, try again.

I recently purchased some of the Winchester Silvertip .22, but I have not had a chance to run it through my LCP. Many believe it is nothing more than the Winchester HE segmenting varmint load with a marketing spin. I am hoping that rounds that are marketed as self defense may receive a little more quality checks.

No,
That's another error in logic.

If the .22 is not good enough for the Secret Service to use, that doesn't compel this conclusion. There may be many rounds that work fine.

Example: if the .22 doesn't work, and the Secret Service uses 9mm, you can't conclude that .40 doesn't work.

Looks like we started interesting discussion here... which actually doesn't have sense and doesn't bring any values to the topic

Please notice... if few people have reported issues, it doesn't mean the product is bad.
Even I could say bad things about 22LR or M&P22C - I had multiple malfunctions with CCI ammo at the very beginning. But it turned to be problem with chamber's sharp edges. Once I smoothed it out - no more problems with the same ammo.
All is individual experience, let's not do this a global problem.


If .22LR was a bad defense load - nobody would make it anymore.
It is the same logic.. or perhaps we don't know if SS uses .22LR... because there services are "secret"?


There are few valuable posts here that answered OP clearly.

That is exactly what your logic is. "If .22 was a good defense load, the Secret Service would be using it."

The Secret Service is not using .40, .357 SIG, .45, .380... Per your own statement, if these were good defensive rounds, the Secret Service would be using them. They are not using them, and in fact some agencies have moved away from them, therefore they must not be a good defensive load per your logic and statement.

However, all of that is moot anyway, as civilian use of a firearm for defense is a totally different use than the mission of the Secret Service or any other law enforcement.

The first rule is to have a gun. Most defensive uses of a firearm are successful of stopping the threat without a shot being fired. In those instances, a firearm, any firearm, worked as most folks don't want to get shot. If the aggressor flees at the sight of the firearm, my goal has been met of stopping the threat. I don't need to hold that person or take them into custody like law enforcement would do.

If I have to fire, there are certainly disadvantages of using a .22lr. It is not as powerful as the other cartridges previously listed, nor is the ignition as reliable. However, for a person who may have a disability or issue that restricts their use of a more powerful round, the .22lr can still provide a means of being armed. See rule number one of a gunfight. It is all risk, acceptance of risk, and tradeoff. It may not be the right option for you, but could be one of the better options for others.

Let me know how a young attacker makes out when he gets one or more .22 caliber CCIs to the face / throat from the SR-22 used by a frail little 70 year old woman who has practiced with her pistol, and is very proficient with it. This woman simply can't operate more robust self-defense firearms !

Sure they would. The vast majority of 22 is purchased for plinking, target shooting and small game hunting. If using 22 for self defense was banned it wouldn't make a noticeable difference in how much 22 is sold in the US.

Even though it gets used for self defense just about any centerfire handgun cartridge would be a better choice. If wants a low recoil handgun that is easy to shoot they would be better off with something like a 380 EZ or a 38 revolver with light loads.

But the OP didn't say why he wants a defense load for his 22 Compact or ask if 22LR is a good choice for self defense. I suspect he knows there are better choices but has reasons for wanting to use a 22 Compact for self defense. Or is asking for a wife/relative/friend that is recoil shy to the point they will only consider a 22 and have absolutely no desire to train and practice enough to become comfortable with a more capable caliber. Which is why I recommended CCI Minimags and skipped mentioning there are better calibers.

Back in the late 70s when early emission controls had dramatically reduced the horsepower of the Corvette engine to less than 200 HP Zora Arkus-Duntov, "The father of the Corvette" was asked if he thought the Corvette should go from a front engine design to a mid engine design. He replied "When is washing machine motor, makes no difference".

I feel the same way about defense ammo for a 22. A bullet that expands will lack the power to penetrate. A bullet that does not expand or tumble might have adequate penetration but will do less damage along the way. So there really isn't much point in trying to find the most effective type of 22 LR other than to trying to find the most reliable type for your gun. Which in my experience is 40 grain, copper washed, round nose CCI Minimags.

I bought 3 50rd boxes of CCI Velocitor and will fire them in 3 different 22's next week. The weapons are a SW 22compact, a Walther 22 ppq as well as a Ruger 10/22 takedown. I intend to also compare the CCI Velocitor (CPHP 40 grain 1435fps) vs the Armscor ( 36 grain CPHP HV). I will provide an update at that time. Comments/Thoughts/Suggestions?

Hallelujah, Praise the Lord , Pass the Ammunition!
Which Ammunition?
Federal Punch, that’s what!
I just ordered 500 Rounds of 22LR Punch.
They warned me not to get antsy, it’ll be a while before they ship it.

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Since we started out in self defense, I would concentrate on the pistols, unless you are in the habit of keeping a loaded rifle handy for home defense.

If you are using a rimfire pistol for home defense/personal protection I recommend ELEY tenex pistol ammo! (round nose)

Yes it cost more but, the bad guy isn't going to wait for you to clear a dud or miss fire.

I would not get any JHP/HP anything. JHP's just won't feed in some rimfire pistols. (my experience)

I shoot in a lot of rimfire Steel Challenge matches every year and the ammo that always goes BOOM is Eley. CCI and Aguila HV is very good ammo too.

Back when I was first starting out and didn't have a lot of money all I had was a .22 rifle and a .22 pistol for home defense. IMO there is nothing wrong with a .22 as long as it is reliable!

Went to the range today with my LCP II and Winchester Silvertips. While not a M&P, this could give you another option. I shot 100 rounds of the Silvertip and had 2 malfunctions... one failure to eject and one failure to fire. I put the round that failed to ignite back in the pistol 3 times and I couldn't get it to fire. Each time it had what appeared to be a solid strike from the hammer.

After reading the OP's post, I was motivated to go to the range last week. Took a variety of 22LR and shot for accuracy out of my Marlin Golden 39A and M&P 15-22. Only .22LR semi-automatic pistol I have is a Ruger SR22P and took it also. Took Mini-Mags, Aguila Super Extra, CCI Select, Federal Auto Match, and Winchester Super-X. Both rifles were scoped and shooting at 50 yards from a bench. Not a whole lot of difference in the accuracy at that distance but if I had to rate for accuracy it CCI Select would be #1 as it's groups were a bit tighter.

Shot all brands through the two rifles and the Ruger SR22. Only had one failure to fire. It was in the Ruger pistol with Winchester Super-X. Good strike on the casing. Put the round back in the pistol and it fired the second time.

Do not count on it.

That's why we don't carry airsoft pistols.

Lots of folks speak ill of the Golden Bullet. My Taurus TX-22 eats them all day long with no issue. I tried them in the LCP yesterday and 120 rounds fired, no feeding issues and no failures to fire. Guess cheap guns like the cheap ammo!

Or new ownership is smarter than older one and decided to stop producing the ****** stuff.

I stopped using Remington ammo in 2019... it may take a long time for me to even try it again....

I have shot Rem in non ammo sensitive guns and don’t recall having problems.
I need reliable ammo for my problem child’s, Beretta 21a and Ruger LCP.
These are the small 22s I would like to feel comfortable carrying as pocket carry protection guns.

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The stuff I have been shooting was what I bought during the last .22lr shortage during the Obama years.

Try the Silvertips. I think I will load my LCP to fire two Silvertips followed by a Mini-Mag, or Velocitor if I could find them.