How to fix design defect in shield 2.0 hinge trigger?

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pmandayam

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Because of how the trigger safety works, if my finger is too high, the safety hinge below won't activate and I can't pull the trigger.

My video demonstration.

The solution now is to replace the trigger. I am looking at either Hyve's Monarch Trigger System trigger, OR Apex trigger.

My question is, will either trigger replacement fix this issue? In other words, with either new trigger, can I activate the trigger with any finger placement?

Training the finger placement to activate the safety is not an option, because in a real world self defense scenario, it could be a point of failure when it's not practical to have that level of finesse. Ideally the trigger should just be "draw, point, and shoot", and unfortunately this gun in this configuration fails to achieve that.

Honestly, I'm surprised how popular this gun has become when half the time you press the trigger and it doesn't even work, it fails to function as a gun. This is far worse than the "false reset" of the CSX and the heavy and atrocious J-frame trigger pulls. I guess Smith & Wesson has horrible trigger engineering, sigh.
 
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Ah, but the Apex system-and I expect the other too- have the Glock like dingus in the lower part of the trigger that have to be depressed to allow the trigger to fire the gun. The same function as the M&P hinged trigger, different method, requires similar trigger digit placement.

Such devices have been in use for roughly 40 years, if they'd had failures to fire, the law suits would have been flying long before this. I helped transition train X00 people to the M&P system and none of them had any such difficulties as you claim.

I suggest some training by a certified instructor, followed by much practice.
 
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Same as what the above poster stated. However, I will add that most of the time it's not the tool, rather the operator in most cases.

I wouldn't worry so much with hypothetical self-defense scenario, because if you allow the assailant to get so close you don't have time to properly discharge your weapon you are already at a disadvantage. Situational awareness is paramount in avoiding such conflicts before they start.

You can be a rookie or a season veteran at shooting, but training that muscle memory is key to staying proficient with your weapons.
 
WR Moore said:
Ah, but the Apex system-and I expect the other too- have the Glock like dingus in the lower part of the trigger that have to be depressed to allow the trigger to fire the gun.
Click to expand...

I don't know about Glock, but I have a Canik TPD9DA and even though it also has a dingus, I can still pull the trigger with any finger placement, because any finger placement is enough to activate the dingus.

Or maybe I can scrap any gun with any trigger safety and get a Sig Sauer instead.
 
bulls-i said:
It may just be you.
Click to expand...

I looked it up and have posted on several other online forums, and it is certainly not just me.

The fact is if the finger is too high up the safety will not activate, leading to a failure to fire.
 
WR Moore said:
if they'd had failures to fire, the law suits would have been flying long before this.
Click to expand...

It is actually well known and common practice for law enforcement agencies to replace the stock M&P triggers.

The fact is, we cannot count on finesse in high-stress shooting situations. This isn't competitive shooting where I have the opportunity to carefully place my finger perfectly on the trigger. And in this fact, snub-nosed revolvers and Sig Sauer semis have the advantage.
 
I had a similar issue with my M&P9. Once I realized what it was a simple change in finger placement fixed it. I tend to ride my finger on trigger guard so it was an easy adjustment for me.

Hit the frame with a file?

I tried an Apex, it hit the frame and thus wouldn’t fire.
 
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Buy the Sig, you're better off than trying to reinvent the wheel. After watching your video, I spent 20 minutes trying to replicate the issue and could not make the trigger fail even once. I guess you weren't meant to have a M&P.
 
pmandayam said:
Because of how the trigger safety works, if my finger is too high, the safety hinge below won't activate and I can't pull the trigger.

My video demonstration.

The solution now is to replace the trigger. I am looking at either Hyve's Monarch Trigger System trigger, OR Apex trigger.

My question is, will either trigger replacement fix this issue? In other words, with either new trigger, can I activate the trigger with any finger placement?

Training the finger placement to activate the safety is not an option, because in a real world self defense scenario, it could be a point of failure when it's not practical to have that level of finesse. Ideally the trigger should just be "draw, point, and shoot", and unfortunately this gun in this configuration fails to achieve that.

Honestly, I'm surprised how popular this gun has become when half the time you press the trigger and it doesn't even work, it fails to function as a gun. This is far worse than the "false reset" of the CSX and the heavy and atrocious J-frame trigger pulls. I guess Smith & Wesson has horrible trigger engineering, sigh.
Click to expand...

If you feel it is a design defect, the better course, based upon your statements, is to sell it, and move on to another brand.
 
pmandayam said:
It is actually well known and common practice for law enforcement agencies to replace the stock M&P triggers.

The fact is, we cannot count on finesse in high-stress shooting situations. This isn't competitive shooting where I have the opportunity to carefully place my finger perfectly on the trigger. And in this fact, snub-nosed revolvers and Sig Sauer semis have the advantage.
Click to expand...

I'm going to call BS on this. The vast majority of LE agencies will NOT change out factory parts because that voids the factory warranty. Simple liability.

Considering the various trigger safety guns account for rough 80% of all police duty weapons and there are for all intent zero complaints of guns NOT firing in real world I'm in the camp of it's the user not the tool.
 
pmandayam said:
Because of how the trigger safety works, if my finger is too high, the safety hinge below won't activate and I can't pull the trigger.

My video demonstration.
Click to expand...

Why are you sticking your trigger finger so far through the trigger guard? Frankly I think it is how you are trying to operate the trigger. Have you tried the large grip insert?

pmandayam said:
This is far worse than the "false reset" of the CSX and the heavy and atrocious J-frame trigger pulls. I guess Smith & Wesson has horrible trigger engineering, sigh.
Click to expand...

So why are you continuing to own Smith & Wesson handguns?
 
Not to be snotty but it's you. You need to practice more. Dry Fire is fine for this. Also, take a look at your grip placement. Do you have a prior hand injury? That could be it too.
 
To be honest on this, I just had a flashback to 2020, and all the videos of new starved for attention gun owners who figured out how to get a Hellcat trigger to fail, threw out videos of it, demanding that Springfield take care of the problem.

It's 2 years later, Springfield really didn't change anything, and you can still get it to fail if you try, but no one will pay attention to your video these days.
 
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pmandayam said:
Honestly, I'm surprised how popular this gun has become when half the time you press the trigger and it doesn't even work, it fails to function as a gun. This is far worse than the "false reset" of the CSX and the heavy and atrocious J-frame trigger pulls. I guess Smith & Wesson has horrible trigger engineering, sigh.
Click to expand...
I have the Shield M2.0, Shield Plus, and the CSX.
I actually like the M2.0 the best. Why? Could be mental, round finger fits a curved trigger better to me. Don't get me wrong, the Plus has a nice trigger as well.
The CSX is a good trigger but it breaks a bit heavier but, I don't seem to have the issues that others have with the CSX trigger.
Practice practice practice. Seriously, Practice!
 
In the video, is that your thumb position when actually firing? If so, try gripping more tightly, with your thumb firmly against the frame below the slide release. Just a suggestion, but that might change the high position of your trigger finger. Good luck.
 
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