AR as a home defense gun?

Im am not on this part of the forum much, In fact The reason I am here is because I just put a Colt 6920 LE in layaway (Happy Face!) I also got some ammo and a couple of extra "Lancer" mags for it.I had the AR platform in the U.S. Army back in 1970, they was kinda in a transition mode back then,( I think). Anyway, I have had a few Colts over the years, didn't shoot them much.....why? Because they are a PAIN to clean up the way I like a firearm to be CLEAN. Why did I just buy this one? Really I don't know,except pride of ownership.I will clean & inspect it, them put it away. For home defense my nightstand firearm is a 3" 629 with full house loads. My wife has a 870 18" pump (chamber empty, 5rounds 2 3/4" in the tube) on her side of the bed, a mod 60 hid in the living room. We have no children at home. We live in the sticks, so I don't worry about "Over penetration". Why the 44mag? Cuzz I can shoot it well,and if a badguy ducks behind a fridge, etc and is armed and a threat, I want something that will stop him. A handgun is my choice in my home. Shotgun IF I think I may have to go outdoors, Regards Ernie
 
Remington 870 Police with an 18" barrel,along side my Smith Governor,sure make me feel at ease having them around,specially since my wife,my daughters,and my son have had enough practice with them,to where they are very accurate,and comfortable with handling either one,and more.Teach your wife, kids,and grandkids how to use your guns safely.
 
JayFramer said:
I think the AR-15 is sort of overblown as the "best HD weapon" no matter how much folks wish it to be true.

I really think a 12 gauge shotgun, pick you flavor, with a good small buckshot load is as good as it gets for civillian HD for a number of reasons. The AR-15 has it's place, and that's OUTSIDE when massive firepower and long range is needed. For home defense, it's simply the wrong tool for the job IMHO.
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Hypothetically speaking, and simply positing a possible situation. When the dobad is holding a knife to the throat of a loved one which would you rather loose in his/her direction from across the (large)room distance one .22" projectile at @ 3000 FPS or 27 .24" projectiles at @ 1200FPS and spreading at about an inch per yard?
 
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Rastoff said:
I don't think that has been stated in this thread. In fact, the conversation has been relatively neutral.

I haven't quantified it, but we seem to have a good spread of what people like. Some like handguns, some like shotguns and some like the AR (or rifle, but AR was the title of the thread).

This has indeed sparked more discussion. I'm going to look into the idea of penetration further myself. The tests I've seen and done myself show that .223Rem penetrates more than 9mm. Even so, there have been several posts saying the opposite is true. I always thought a shotgun was not as loud as the .223, but there is some evidence that I was wrong in that assessment.

All in all, a good discussion.
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Nor did I imply that was the tone of this thread, but it is the tone in many others! What I say is choose whatever weapon you want for home defense. An AR-15 or a 12 gauge shotgun are both formidable weapons and will do the job. Training and having a plan is more important!
 
Ignoring the high end house with sweeping interior vistas, a single wide 72 foot long house trailer can give you a longer shot than many houses. Ranch style houses can also get interesting.

I find the concentration on low penetration rounds short sighted. Alternatives include surveying your house and establishing no-fire zones like troops are supposed to do when establishing a defensive perimenter. You also need to stress to family member that in the event of a home invasion to get on the floor and stay there until either the cops or you declare the scene clear. There's also the issue of practice. Yes, there may/will be stray rounds, but you can still minimize the issues with layers of preparation.

Having mentioned that, home invasions are supposed to be the fastest rising crime stat. Local examples have involved 3-5 aggressors. You don't have to be a drug dealer to get unwelcome attention.

Rastoff, some of the information you're looking for would be available in either Hornaday TAP or Speer law enforcement publications. The Speer website can be very helpful, especially the videos.
 
jdh said:
When the dobad is holding a knife to the throat of a loved one which would you rather loose in his/her direction from across the (large)room distance one .22" projectile at @ 3000 FPS or 27 .24" projectiles at @ 1200FPS and spreading at about an inch per yard?
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I like how you used the phrase "when" as if this is certainty that is going to happen. :rolleyes:

What if the same dobad, with no hostage, charges you full speed with his knife and you have time for one shot--do you want to make 27 holes of .24" or just 1 of .22"?
 
Handgun will be used at my home and if things get worse then time to grab the AR if necessary. That seems like reasonable decision if the time does come to protect my family and home. :)
 
Waywatcher said:
I like how you used the phrase "when" as if this is certainty that is going to happen. :rolleyes:

What if the same dobad, with no hostage, charges you full speed with his knife and you have time for one shot--do you want to make 27 holes of .24" or just 1 of .22"?
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That's the best nitpick you can come up with, when?

Here's my return nitpick, IF you can only get one on target shot off with an AR in the time it takes the dobad to take a single step you need to practice more.
 
Speaking of getting X number of shots off in a certain amount of time, have y'all ever heard of the Tueller drill? It goes like this...

  • Two people standing on the firing line. One is a shooter and one is a runner.
  • The shooter faces the target, the runner faces away.
  • The runner has one hand on the shooter's non shooting shoulder.
  • At his own discretion, the runner starts running away from the shooter.
  • As soon as the shooter feels the runner's hand leave his shoulder, he fires two shots at the target.
  • When the runner hears the first shot, he drops a bean bag.
  • When the runner hears the second shot, he drops a second bean bag.

Once all that is done, measure the distance from the firing line to the bean bags. It's pretty amazing how far the runner can get before the first shot. It's also amazing how far he gets after the first but before the second.
 
jdh said:
That's the best nitpick you can come up with, when?

Here's my return nitpick, IF you can only get one on target shot off with an AR in the time it takes the dobad to take a single step you need to practice more.
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A good shooter will get the gun up on target in less than a second. An AR, in the hands of the same shooter, could even have 1/5 second aimed splits. A pump shotgun can give 1/2 second aimed splits. Also, in the heat of the moment, do you have the presence of mind to raise your POA the requisite 2"--the difference between a shot in the nose and a shot in the jaw?

Even if I give you the benefit of two shots, twice as many as a shotgun, are you going to take two holes of 0.22" instead of 27 of .24"? I'm even a 20 gauge guy--would you take the two holes of 0.22" over twenty holes of 0.25"?
 
Waywatcher said:
A good shooter will get the gun up on target in less than a second. An AR, in the hands of the same shooter, could even have 1/5 second aimed splits. A pump shotgun can give 1/2 second aimed splits. Also, in the heat of the moment, do you have the presence of mind to raise your POA the requisite 2"--the difference between a shot in the nose and a shot in the jaw?

Even if I give you the benefit of two shots, twice as many as a shotgun, are you going to take two holes of 0.22" instead of 27 of .24"? I'm even a 20 gauge guy--would you take the two holes of 0.22" over twenty holes of 0.25"?
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If you are in the presence of an identified threat why are you standing flat footed with your gun down, not covering the threat before it initiates the move in your direction?

There is a reason why rifles/carbines are replacing shotguns in patrol car racks. And yes I am quite familiar with the 870 riot shotgun have been the primary instructor on that particular device for the 7 years prior to retirement. BTW my HD shotgun does not have a C/IC choke and I do know the pattern size/POI with it from 5 to 50 yards with my chosen load.

One more BTW, on my AR it is 2.5" from the top of the front sight post to the center of the bore.
 
One consideration for HD that has come to the forefront over the past 16 months is supply and demand for both firearms and ammo. A nice AR rifle may indeed be an ideal HD firearm, but if ammo is too scarce to gain sufficient practice, or too expensive to make shooting prohibitive, then the AR isn't so practical. A year ago, there was no .223/5.56 to be found, and ARs skyrocketed in price. That scenario is sure to happen again, and I will not be stuck with a firearm and caliber that can't be fed. The ammo shortage affected numerous calibers, (.38 Special is still tough to locate), but 9mm, .45 ACP, and 7.62x39 have come back into the supply lines, thus making them far more attractive than other calibers that can't be found consistently.

For a long gun, I choose a Mossberg Mariner pump. I will have greater success locating a wider variety of ammo when if another shortage occurs, far more than an AR. I've learned from the past, and will not be victimized by another shortage.

In another thread, I mentioned visiting Gander Mt. yesterday. Though firearms and ammo were overpriced, there was a huge supply of Lake City .223/5.56. Same at WMart ... lots of .223 available. If you go with the AR, spend the money now and stock up on ammo for practice and training. Based on what happened post-December 2012, I wouldn't feel stocked up with less than 5K rounds for that rifle.
 
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mc5aw said:
I will have greater success locating a wider variety of ammo when if another shortage occurs, far more than an AR. I've learned from the past, and will not be victimized by another shortage.
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AR is plentiful now and pretty cheap as well...far cheaper that the cals you mentioned.

If/when another shortage occurs we don't have some ammo put back for just such an occurance then no, we HAVE NOT learned from the past.
 
mc5aw said:
For a long gun, I choose a Mossberg Mariner pump. I will have greater success locating a wider variety of ammo when if another shortage occurs, far more than an AR. I've learned from the past, and will not be victimized by another shortage.
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Sorry, but this is not correct. I do a lot of shotgun shooting and it is easier for me to find .223Rem than shotgun shells these days. So, your logic doesn't work. When the shortage hits, and it will, all popular calibers/gauges will be and are affected.
 
Rastoff said:
Sorry, but this is not correct. I do a lot of shotgun shooting and it is easier for me to find .223Rem than shotgun shells these days. So, your logic doesn't work. When the shortage hits, and it will, all popular calibers/gauges will be and are affected.
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Must be regional, as I have no problems finding shotgun shells. Of course, I am only looking for 00 buck, dove and target loads, and duck loads... Walmart has all three, as well as Academy.
 
Yeah, some places are catching up on .22LR as well. Not here. Everything is scarce. If I want to pay a premium I can get anything, but $15 for a box of 50 .22LR is not something I'm willing to pay. Neither will I pay $10 for a box of Remington Gun Club target shot shells.
 
Rastoff said:
Sorry, but this is not correct. I do a lot of shotgun shooting and it is easier for me to find .223Rem than shotgun shells these days. So, your logic doesn't work. When the shortage hits, and it will, all popular calibers/gauges will be and are affected.
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Perhaps now, and in your area, but not in my locale during the 2013 shortage. As .223 was selling online for $1.49/round at its peak last year (when it could be found), 12 gauge ammo of varying grades was still available at numerous stores. At the very least, the junkiest 12 gauge rounds were still on the shelves when .223 became a memory. Ask anyone who got caught ammo-less when they were searching for AR food if they'd rather have owned a 12 gauge at that point. The main reason I sold my ARs and ammo last year then consolidated with 7.62x39 was due to what I watched happen in real time. I will never own an AR or .223 rifle again.
 
You guys know me. I'm a locksmith. A good one.

I always think perimeter security first. My point?

Having a good overall plan is important. I won't ever find myself in a position where I might need to make a pinpoint shot to save myself or family member.

It will take several minutes for someone to gain access into my house giving me plenty of time to grab my shotgun and hopefully the police show up before I need it.

When considering a firearm for the street or home, there is much to consider. More than most people think.
 
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