3rd Gen parts - I'm afraid we're on our own Gents

So yesterday I was on the phone with the mothership, S&W that is, to order a set of the new PC1911 adjustable sights I want to try to adapt to the PC4506. Anyway I got to talking about the parts situation and asked the rep if we're ever going to see the 3rd gen stuff back in stock. Without hesitation, the answer was emphatically no. Not even maintenance items like various springs, mag followers and such? Nope not gonna happen.

So I though I'd post some of the parts sources I know of or have done business with.

No doubt some of you will recognize a few of these...
S&W will often tell you to call this guy...
Buying and Selling Guns and Gun Parts
That guy has often told me to call this fellow...
About Gun Parts! ...Bob's Gun Parts. Top Page Commercial Super Site.
And also this guy...
The Gun Garage Siloam Springs Arkansas | gungaragegunparts.com

And of course there's always...
Jack First Gunshop - First in Gun Parts - Rapid City, South Dakota
And these folks...
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/

I used to get many items from both
World's Largest Supplier of Gun Parts, Gunsmith Tools & Shooting Accessories - Brownells
And...
Shop Shooting Supplies | Reloading | Gunsmithing | Hunting gear ? MidwayUSA
But of late most of their stock has dried up. They both still have some of the more obscure parts in stock but, most all of the commonly used stuff is long gone.

And as always, I keep a weather eye on the auction sites for parts set or kits and individual components that fit my guns. Having the parts reference handy is a great help here as you can readily identify stuff that is cross compatible between the different series' 45xx, 40xx, 39/59xx,m TSW & Value line.
I was informed yesterday the parts book was taken down for revision & update. I don't know whether the 3rd gens will even be listed in there when it's posted again at S&W.

A cautionary note though... Carefully inspect those used parts and make damn sure they are serviceable before you actually install any in a gun. I've been caught short a couple times with stuff that on it's face appeared perfect but in practice caused problems and upon detailed inspection was badly flawed.
Fortunately, nothing blew up in my face.

In inspecting parts, If you don't know what to look for, find a smith who's competent with these gun to help. NOTE: The local "smith" who wrenches AR's together probably aint the right guy to ask. I can see the day coming when finding someone competent to work on these guns will be as easy as finding a guy competent to work on a Borchardt C-93.

Best of luck my fellow 3rd gen'rs

Cheers
Bill

So much for the "lifetime warranty" that so many go on about.

Hopefully Apex Tactical will recieve some Emails from 3rd gen owners about this.

Apex has made a lot of money capitalizing on the deficiencies of the products made by the current company calling itself S&W. Maybe they will help us keep the 3rd gen guns operating.

Wasn't there another company that wanted to make the dual recoil springs for us? IIRC their rep wanted an un-used set. Anyone still in contact with him? Regards 18DAI

I just sent an Email to Wilson Combat too. They recently started customizing and supporting Beretta 92's. Some may want to encourage Wilson to consider the 3rd gen guns too. C&S might not be a bad idea either. Their founder is a longtime fan of the 3rd gens.

Parts availability seems to be the only downside to owning these guns. Very dis-heartening to say the least

Thank you Bill for the list of suppliers, some of which are new to me. I suspected this dropping of support from S&W was the case when Midway cleared out a ton of their 3rd gen parts last year and switched the remaining out of stock stuff to non-backorder status. Smith must have told them the same thing, we're not taking anymore orders since we're not making that stuff anymore.

Sad.

Now we get to start (like I already hadn't started last year!) hoarding parts to go along with hi-cap mags and ammo.

GunPartsCorp recently sent me some parts that were wrong for my 908 (sideplate assembly) but then I realized it was a sideplate for a 5906 so I kept it.

Good advice to study what condition your "new" parts are truly in. Some of the stuff GunPartsCorp sent me was used, although they never stated the parts were used in the description.

Stay safe and well stocked.

Thanks for the links.

I just got on the 3rd gen wagon and trying to get a stockpile of parts as well as the basics like magazines so those are very helpful.

It makes me sad that these fine handguns are not being supported by the company that made them.

I will be contacting Wilson Combat, C&S as well as Apex.

Thanks for the links, Bill. The handwriting has been on the wall for some time now. It really is the Achilles heel for our long term enjoyment of these guns, though there is some small comfort in knowing, for the most part, I've not had much to be concerned about in terms of parts failures. Since you tinker around more than most of us here, I would be curious as to your thoughts on which specific parts we should be stockpiling while we can?

If you read this Fastbolt, your thoughts would be of interest as well.

For 3rd Generation pistol grips, let me suggest the following shop:
H&H Firearms, 262 Rocktown Rd., Jefferson City, TN 37760

Harry Hance is the owner, and several years ago he secured the grip inventory of of a local S&W distributor when that person sold his business.
He does not have a computer, but you can contact him by telephone at
(865) 475-2049. I have talked with him during the last month, and he told me that he still has a lot of grips that he is willing to sell. I don't have any 3rd Generation pistols so I wasn't interested, but if you are looking for grips you may get lucky. Business hours are "roughly" 10:00 am to 5:00 pm M-F and perhaps a little shorter on Saturday.

Well, for the most part, these guns are extraordinarily rugged. Like any well crafted metal piece, with reasonable care they should outlast most of us.

The parts that I'm most concerned about are the wear items you could consider semi-consumables. These are in MY order of priority...

*Recoil springs
*Magazine followers
*Magazine springs
*Ejector
*Extractor spring
*Extractor
*trigger play spring & rivet or, spare drawbar assembly

Recoil springs I'm confident I have a handle on, at least for my small collection of 45's

I think magazine followers top my list as a wear item I like to have more of.

I bought several new mags back when Midway ran that clearance sale, in hindsight, I should've bought a bunch more than I did.

Beyond that, I think folks need to be extra careful when performing routine maintenance not to damage anything. For example... The sideplate can be easily damaged merely by removing & installing the plastic grip or just using an incorrect method to install the thing and there wont be any spares. Likewise the delicate trigger play spring can be easily bent, damaged or broken and there are a number of tiny plungers & springs that will gladly shoot into orbit if you're not exercising due care.

Cheers
Bill

redrock said:

Thanks for the links, Bill. The handwriting has been on the wall for some time now. It really is the Achilles heel for our long term enjoyment of these guns, though there is some small comfort in knowing, for the most part, I've not had much to be concerned about in terms of parts failures. Since you tinker around more than most of us here, I would be curious as to your thoughts on which specific parts we should be stockpiling while we can?

If you read this Fastbolt, your thoughts would be of interest as well.

Click to expand...

Bill, Thanks for the links. I'm hoping that since I spread out my small collection to give each one time at the range I will put off any excessive wear. This applies to all but the 4506-1 & the Shorty Forty, which insist on being included on every range trip.

In response to 18DAI's question about a potential supplier for recoil springs, yes, this is still hanging fire. He has called me after receiving the set of new springs I sent for the 4516-size nested pair, and he was following up on his end to find a pistol on which he could measure (to three decimal places) a couple of the critical dimensions. I'll get back in touch and see where we are. Heckuva nice guy and super knowledgeable. And just to tease you a little, he mentioned that his shop uses a cryogenic process that produces springs good for 25,000 rounds and more with no deterioration of capability!

I've been having a hell of a time tracking down an extractor pin for my 645... note that the 4506 uses the same one.

S&W - out of stock
Brownells - out of stock
Midway - out of stock
Numrich - out of stock

I'll have to try the new links provided.

Well I just got off the phone with "Jack First Gunshop" and now have an 645 extractor pin on the way, along with a 6906 grip, 457 grip, and a 2206 barrel nut (restricted part). I paid a little too much for the parts, but I'm tired of waiting.

If I remember the phone conversation:

Pin = $3.00 (6x)
Grip #1 = $20 (about the same)
Grip #2 = $30 (1.5x)
Barrel nut = $4 (about the same)
Shipping = $10

Just emailed Apex Tactical. There is a market for parts, hopefully someone's business plan will get this going for us.

Rockman said:

For 3rd Generation pistol grips, let me suggest the following shop:
H&H Firearms, 262 Rocktown Rd., Jefferson City, TN 37760

Harry Hance is the owner, and several years ago he secured the grip inventory of of a local S&W distributor when that person sold his business.
He does not have a computer, but you can contact him by telephone at
(865) 475-2049. I have talked with him during the last month, and he told me that he still has a lot of grips that he is willing to sell. I don't have any 3rd Generation pistols so I wasn't interested, but if you are looking for grips you may get lucky. Business hours are "roughly" 10:00 am to 5:00 pm M-F and perhaps a little shorter on Saturday.

Click to expand...

Well, fancy that. I grew up in Jefferson City. Graduated from Carson-Newnan. Probably went to school with some relatives of his.

Maybe we should all "claim" all our guns are broke and when they can't fix em' we can sue cause they can't honor THEIR lifetime warranty and then when they can't pay up we can take the company over and we'll have all the parts we need as well as some new production 3rd Gens. Just a thought.

I would suggest not to panic. I have many first and second gens, which many of the parts for have been obsolete for a long time, but have never had a problem finding spares for. Considering the sheer number of third gens produced, as well as parts interchangeability, and the number of spares made during the third gen production, I would think parts will be around for a long, long time.

The good part is they are nearly "bullet proof" so needing parts is fairly uncommon. That said, I just bought a bunch of misc parts and springs from Numrich. Their supply is thin and dwindling so get it while you can.

18DAI said:

So much for the "lifetime warranty" that so many go on about.

Click to expand...

S&W implemented the lifetime warranty in 1989, IIRC. That is an interesting question, whether the "repair of defects in materials and workmanship" (statement of warranty) is extended to normal wear items like springs.

Alone again...naturally

Oh great! How am I going to break this to the kidz that their Creator doesn't love them any more?

Sounds like more "cuddle time" & less "play time" is in order for the kidz.

Be advised that this also applies to the PERFORMANCE CENTER 3rd gens as well. I was not going to even bother telling this story here, but it seems to be an appropriate time to do so.

I have a PC 4566 45 CQB that I had sent back to S&W last year. I wanted them to install Novak Night sights and a forged spurless hammer. It took them months to do those two simple things - but that is another story.

I also asked - and paid for 6 recoil springs for it as it was a limited production gun and I was going to use it as a duty pistol. I figured six springs would get me to retirement.

When the gun was finally returned to me there was a bag with six recoil springs in the box. No parts numbers - just a plain plastic zip lock type bag.

So back around February of this year, I decided I would qualify with the 45 CQB. I installed one of the new springs S&W had sent me. It was very hard to install and almost 1.5 inches longer than the spring that was in the gun. The gun hand cycled fine - but was a bit harder to rack the slide than before. I figured that since the PC had sent me the springs, they must be the correct ones. Right?

So I qualify firing 100 rounds. Then that Sunday I shoot a local match with it firing 120 rounds. That Sunday night when I go to clean it I find that my guide rod has been gouged - scalloped in three places by the spring. The spring is evidently stacking and binding.

So Monday I call S&W to get a replacement guide rod and buy the correct springs too. I'm told, after waiting on hold for 26 minutes that; "those parts are on back order." Me - "OK. Can I go ahead and place an order for them?" CS - "I'm not sure we will ever be getting any more of those parts. And even if we do, there is no way I could tell you when that might be." Me - "This is a Performance Center gun with a lifetime warranty." CS - ".............is there anything else I can assist you with?" Me - "Thanks, no. CLICK!"

So, I Email the S&W LE rep. I politely inform him of the problem and ask for assistance. He has always been VERY kind and helpful in the past, whenever I wanted to buy mags or recoil springs. Two days later I get a terse one line reply - "I use grease on my guide rod." - accompanied by the two parts numbers for the parts I already know are on back order - AND have been told by the CS rep are probably not going to be restocked!

So, I Email him again - politely - and explain my conversation with CS and ask him for his assistance. Afterall, this is an "LE duty gun" as well as a PERFORMANCE CENTER piece with their LIFETIME WARRANTY. And S&W "always caters to LE", right? Well........maybe if you carry an m&p.

I'm still waiting on an Email response from him. Although I no longer expect one.

So being a persistant type I find out where <DELETED> is these days (the original S&W Performance Center was his baby back in the day) I Email him at <DELETED> and ask if he can supply the parts for the 45 CQB. He Emails me back. He is unable to help as S&W won't sell him parts. He seems surprised at the difficulty I am having and informs me that when he was at the PC they kept repair parts for a period of 10 years and advises me to call the head of the PC.

Being disgusted by all this I've not bothered to do so. Member BMCM and I have discussed this matter, through PM's, over the last few months and he has gone out of his way to try and assist me. THANK YOU AGAIN BMCM!!

So keep in mind that your performance center guns, depending on model and what year they were made, may not be supported by the "performance center" for the life of the gun. Unless of course the PC makes an m&p. Regards 18DAI