3rd Gen parts - I'm afraid we're on our own Gents
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vigil617
US Veteran
Discouraging to say the least. A darn shame to say it better. Freakin' unbelievable to say it the best.
I guess the Wanted to Buy section here on the Forum is gonna get a lot longer before long....
I'm sure we'll look out for each other in the meantime, but this certainly isn't a long-term answer.
As an aside: as a relative newbie to S&W semi-autos for the past couple of years, I have naively developed a sense of loyalty to the brand and a pride of ownership as part of a community of like-minded folks. I'm feeling, frankly, more than a little let down by the lack of corporate support of these pistols that, admittedly, are of an earlier time and place and might not make sense economically for S&W to continue to support. None of my pistols has the lifetime warranty any longer, I suppose, as I'm not the original owner of any of them, but if they did I would be more than a bit "incensed."
I guess the Wanted to Buy section here on the Forum is gonna get a lot longer before long....
I'm sure we'll look out for each other in the meantime, but this certainly isn't a long-term answer.
As an aside: as a relative newbie to S&W semi-autos for the past couple of years, I have naively developed a sense of loyalty to the brand and a pride of ownership as part of a community of like-minded folks. I'm feeling, frankly, more than a little let down by the lack of corporate support of these pistols that, admittedly, are of an earlier time and place and might not make sense economically for S&W to continue to support. None of my pistols has the lifetime warranty any longer, I suppose, as I'm not the original owner of any of them, but if they did I would be more than a bit "incensed."
Whoa fellas! All is not lost and the future is far from bleak! 
Having owned, been issued, purchased and examined many hundreds of well used 3rd gen guns, and shot the snot out of a whole bunch of them - far more rounds through individual examples than most average shooters will ever run through one example - I've only broken a MIM mag catch on a 4516-3 and chewed up a guide rod on a PC 4566.
Not bad I'd say. And I have never been considered "lucky".
As was pointed out above, where a market exists, somebody will fill the void and make a profit.
Buy them, shoot them, love them! Besides, lifes too short to buy ugly plastic guns with lousy triggers. If not a 3rd gen gun, then what?
Well........yea, there is always HK...... Regards 18DAI
Having owned, been issued, purchased and examined many hundreds of well used 3rd gen guns, and shot the snot out of a whole bunch of them - far more rounds through individual examples than most average shooters will ever run through one example - I've only broken a MIM mag catch on a 4516-3 and chewed up a guide rod on a PC 4566.
Not bad I'd say. And I have never been considered "lucky".
As was pointed out above, where a market exists, somebody will fill the void and make a profit.
Buy them, shoot them, love them! Besides, lifes too short to buy ugly plastic guns with lousy triggers. If not a 3rd gen gun, then what?
Well........yea, there is always HK......
Regards 18DAI
Try calling the guy in Texas (LSG). People on the forum have posted good things about him in the past.
Warranty Stations - Smith & Wesson
03Fatboy
Member
From a legal standpoint, Smith and Wesson better be real careful about not honoring 3rd Gen repairs that fall under their "Lifetime Warranty". And not having the replacement parts is not an excuse to perform a necessary repair, especially for those with priority and departments still issuing and using them.
Just assuming whoever is making those big boy decisions has already consulted the legal department and must not be worried about the risk associated with a lawsuit.
Just assuming whoever is making those big boy decisions has already consulted the legal department and must not be worried about the risk associated with a lawsuit.
OP
If you can get the guy in touch with me, I can provide those dimensions for him on a couple guns. 4516-2 & Shorty45 mk2 specifically
Cheers
Bill
Cheers
Bill
In response to 18DAI's question he was following up on his end to find a pistol on which he could measure (to three decimal places) a couple of the critical dimensions. I'll get back in touch and see where we are. Heckuva nice guy and super knowledgeable. And just to tease you a little, he mentioned that his shop uses a cryogenic process that produces springs good for 25,000 rounds and more with no deterioration of capability!
I was told just this morning by a Sgt. with the WVSP that they are switching to M&P's this fall/winter. Although the rumor of switching to M&P's was floating around when I was still a troop a few years ago, I think it is probably true this time around. It certainly fits with the info in this thread.
It's a travesty that S&W won't maintain at least a few of the most popular models as PC items...
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It's a travesty that S&W won't maintain at least a few of the most popular models as PC items...
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I wouldn't be surprised if the company wouldn't like it if many of their existing agency customers were make the transition from 3rd gen to M&P pistol.
I've been told that they'd like to see the 3rd gen's completely go away from production (even for existing agency customers who have used them for many years) within the next 10-15 years. This would mean the CHP (CA), WVSP, NYPD, LAPD and any number of others would have to agree to replace their 3rd gen's with M&P's.
I've been told that they'd like to see the 3rd gen's completely go away from production (even for existing agency customers who have used them for many years) within the next 10-15 years. This would mean the CHP (CA), WVSP, NYPD, LAPD and any number of others would have to agree to replace their 3rd gen's with M&P's.
I wonder if this would possibly mean that some more WVSP 4566TSW's will be hitting the resale market?
I wonder if this would possibly mean that some more WVSP 4566TSW's will be hitting the resale market?
That would certainly be the only upside to the change!
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Shorty 45 MK2
Member
[quote Buy them, shoot them, love them! Besides, lifes too short to buy ugly plastic guns with lousy triggers. If not a 3rd gen gun, then what? Well........yea, there is always HK...... ][/quote]
I agree, except for the part about HK, but I'm more of a SIG than HK guy.
I agree, except for the part about HK, but I'm more of a SIG than HK guy.
If nothing else, if this happens maybe some of the parts floating around in various armories would be sold as surplus. Depending of course on how deep the parts inventory is.
OTOH, if these agencies decided to get away from the S&W 3rd generation guns, there is no guarantee to S&W that the replacements would be M&P guns. They might opt to go to some other companies all metal guns.
10-15 years is a long time away, though, so who knows what will happen?
OTOH, if these agencies decided to get away from the S&W 3rd generation guns, there is no guarantee to S&W that the replacements would be M&P guns. They might opt to go to some other companies all metal guns.
10-15 years is a long time away, though, so who knows what will happen?
vigil617
US Veteran
Part of the way there already, Master Chief. I had told him that if he wasn't able to come up with a pistol, I knew a Forum member who could probably provide the dimensions to him. Yep, I was thinking you'd be the go-to guy there. Either he or I will get in touch with you soon. Thanks.
loner1
Member
I recently e-mailed Apex as well and received a prompt and personal response stating that although nothing was in their pipeline for the 3rd gens that they were always reevaluating and researching new product directions and ideas so definitely a thumbs up to a barrage of inquiries sent their way.
Maybe Novak's would step up to the plate as well IIRC Wayne Novak also had a hand in the 3rd gen design back in the day as well as making his sights their flagship standard. Their site still advertises 3rd gen work too.
I just spent about 6 months getting a simple ambi safety lever & plunger to put my 5905 back together and can echo the earlier posts, supplies are dwindling fast. It took a trip to Mordor to get a simple guide rod for the gun too.
Maybe Novak's would step up to the plate as well IIRC Wayne Novak also had a hand in the 3rd gen design back in the day as well as making his sights their flagship standard. Their site still advertises 3rd gen work too.
I just spent about 6 months getting a simple ambi safety lever & plunger to put my 5905 back together and can echo the earlier posts, supplies are dwindling fast. It took a trip to Mordor to get a simple guide rod for the gun too.
Parts Donor
Ditto that! Having just put a lot of money into these guns it's not very comforting to know that parts support from S&W is going to be nill. I guess once word gets out we might be able to buy these guns at 2-for-1 prices & cannibalize one for parts. Guess I better update my parts compatibility list.
Ditto that! Having just put a lot of money into these guns it's not very comforting to know that parts support from S&W is going to be nill. I guess once word gets out we might be able to buy these guns at 2-for-1 prices & cannibalize one for parts. Guess I better update my parts compatibility list.
Big Shrek
Member
Chances are higher that those customers might go elsewhere,
if they think that S&W won't do any better for the M&P line in the future...
SIG & Glock have an edge there...
not to mention all the bad press from the M&P Shield recall.
kbm6893
Member
Big mistake on s&w's part. But I suspect they will do what ruger does with customers requesting support on their Six series revolvers. Ruger will scrap the gun and sell you a new GP100 or SP101 for cost, which is about 350 bucks shipped right to your door. I imagine a new M&P would cost less then 200. And ruger doesn't even have an official lifetime warranty
The NYPD issues the 5946. Gotta be at least 8000 officers with them. And the NYPD is not gonna force 8000 cops to buy new night sights and leather. New recruits are selecting the gun as I type this so those guns will be carried until 2034 at least. Not supporting those guns is gonna piss off one of their biggest contracts. Of course, they might have given the job a ton if spare parts which is why they have none for the civilian market
The NYPD issues the 5946. Gotta be at least 8000 officers with them. And the NYPD is not gonna force 8000 cops to buy new night sights and leather. New recruits are selecting the gun as I type this so those guns will be carried until 2034 at least. Not supporting those guns is gonna piss off one of their biggest contracts. Of course, they might have given the job a ton if spare parts which is why they have none for the civilian market
Organ Donors
Sad to say it, but as many of these LE trade-ins come on the market, plenty of them will be bought simply as organ donors to keep other pistols shooting.... The last 457 I bought from SOSS was like new, but its price put it within my range to look at it as a "parts-kit". So far, I haven't had to act on this.... and it was damn hard to even type this thought - but there it is. Yuck!
XAVMECH
Sad to say it, but as many of these LE trade-ins come on the market, plenty of them will be bought simply as organ donors to keep other pistols shooting.... The last 457 I bought from SOSS was like new, but its price put it within my range to look at it as a "parts-kit". So far, I haven't had to act on this.... and it was damn hard to even type this thought - but there it is. Yuck!
XAVMECH
A friend of mine standardized on 1911's just for this reason. He said, it's an open design. I can maintain and repair it as long as guns are legal.
Now I think, sure its great to have some old guns, but if you are serious about self-defense adopt the latest technology when its stable, and keep only old pieces for fun range use.
Now I think, sure its great to have some old guns, but if you are serious about self-defense adopt the latest technology when its stable, and keep only old pieces for fun range use.
Sorry to hear the news.
I only have two, 3913 and the later 915. But about a year ago when they were available, I bought side plates and trigger play spring/rivets for both of them. I figure Wolff will have springs for some time to come.
Dave
I only have two, 3913 and the later 915. But about a year ago when they were available, I bought side plates and trigger play spring/rivets for both of them. I figure Wolff will have springs for some time to come.
Dave
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