1006/1026/1046 in 9mm X 23mm / .356 TSW

[bad_man_ one]

Many of you know my fascination for the .356 TSW round.
I ended up picking up 7 boxes of Winchester 125 gr Silvertips in 9 X 23 to use the brass for .356 TSW.
I decapped one box of 50 and decided to start looking around the internet for a 9x23 gun to buy and stumbled onto a
Bar-Sto barrel for a 1006/1026/1046 in 9 mm x 23 mm. owned by a forum member that had gotten it years earlier that said;

“Just so you know what you would be getting, I never fired the barrel,
I never even hand-cycled any ammo through it, I just got it,
field stripped the 1006 and reassembled it with the 9x23 barrel.
While I assume it would work, you know what 'assume' can mean.”

So I get it and drop it in a 1006 with a 9 x 23 round chambered and it doesn’t sit where it should.
Knowing a little about .356 TSW, I drop one in and it’s perfect.

So I now have a 1006/1026/1046 in .356 TSW.
I plan on shooting some to check velocities and go on to re-bore it to the intended marking of 9 m.m. X 23 m.m.
Regards,
BM1

With the 9 m.m. x 23 m.m. not fully chambered:

With the .356 TSW:

 

[Palmetto Sharpshooter]

What about the magazines?

Keep us posted please.

 

[remat457]

Very cool!

 

[maxfam]

What about the smaller 9mm case rim compared to the 10mm rim? Are there going to be any extraction issues? Please let us know.
maxfam

 

[bad_man_ one]

1006 in 9 m.m. X 23 m.m. - Update

To answer a few of the questions;

“What about the magazines?”
And,
What about the smaller 9mm case rim compared to the 10mm rim?
Are there going to be any extraction issues?

The answer covers both;
Based on the SAAMI Specs,
the magazines work because the difference in the diameters are only .042” at the tip of the case and .031” at the base (extractor end)
so it sits slightly higher in the magazine but hand cycles perfectly.
The case lengths are .900 - .010 for the 9 m.m. X 23 m.m. and .922 - .010 for the 10 m.m.
The Over All Lengths are 1.150 - 1.300 for the 9 m.m. X 23 m.m. and 1.240 - 1.260 for the 10 m.m.
With the Winchester 125 gr. Silvertips H. P. having a 1.240” OAL are similar to the 10 m.m.

The chamber has now been re-bored on a CNC Lathe to the SAAMI Specs and the round fits like a glove and you get 10 + 1.
I still have plans to test/shoot some .356 TSW through this 5.00" barrel,
I will hand cycle each individual round, so as not to put undue stress on the extractor, more to follow.
Regards,
BM1

 

[bad_man_ one]

9 m.m. X 23 m.m. Range Day

One reason for buying this barrel is that I found 7 - 50 round boxes (at a good price) of 125 gr. Winchester Silvertips HP's
in 9 m.m. X 23 m.m with the thoughts of de-capping them to use the brass for my .356 TSW reloads.
Well, after de-capping one box, what a pain in the butt that was.
I got to thinking about shooting the ammo rather than de-capping them and happen to find the Bar-Sto barrel by chance.

The other reason is that I wanted to see the quality, fit and finish of a Bar-Sto (Drop-in?) Barrel
due in part of the barrels that I am going to produce for the 10X6 series.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...0-m-m-auto-owners-40-s-w-357-sig-barrels.html
Was I ever surprised when I received it? It had to be re-worked quite a bit and it was definitely not a "drop-in".
The barrel locking lug in front of the chamber hood that seats into the slide when in battery was not
cut deep enough by .024” on the diameter compared to my factory barrels.
The location of the breech face lug on top was binding on the slide breech face and was also way out of square to the thru bore.
I ground .010” to fit leaving .002” clearance during lock-up. Stock S&W barrel and slide seem to be .004-.008 clearance.
The .204 diameter pin on the slide lock lever that holds the assembly all together and contacts an area under the bottom lug and
controls the position that the slide locates forward lock-up relative to the back of the frame was off.
It had to be reground with a matching radius, I had to push it back an additional .032” for the back of the slide to line up.
The chamber was also way out of spec and it was re-bored in a CNC Lathe to SAAMI Specs.

So off to the range I went today.
And I am one happy guy.
Regards,
BM1

Everything was shot at 50 feet bench rested on a carpeted wooden rest.
First two shots from the Bar-Sto with the 125 gr. 9 mm x 23 mm Winchester Silvertip HP’s were a little low and to the right compared to the factory 10 mm barrel.
Being the velocity is much higher than the 10mm it held true that it printed lower.
I clicked up two and left three and shot the second group of six on the left.

Adjusted one click right.

Adjusted one click down and I was dialed in.

A few volleys of my de-capped handloads with 125 gr. Star JSP’s over 6.3 gr. Win 231 @ 1.240 OAL
They were way more accurate and just as hot.

As I said I would, .356 TSW worked but not as accurate, 147 Federal Match and 124 BHP Cor-Bon’s
Higher velocity Cor-Bon’s print lower.

 

[Palmetto Sharpshooter]

That's good shooting! Glad it worked for you.

 

[Shadow1006]

BM1, I must say it looks like you have got the thing shooting nicely. I was wondering about the 9x23 as compared to the 356TSW...

Can't wait till you get to crank out some of your own barrels, as this is sure to be some interesting projects.

 

[38-44HD45]

Okay, but I'm a bit confused. I carry 9x23 1911-types more than any other caliber. I've converted a bunch of 9x19 and several .38 Super guns to 9x23. I LOVE 9x23 ballistics. 9x23 rim diameter is substantially smaller than that of 10mm. Is the Bar-Sto barrel offset to the right to allow sufficient extractor engagement, or does the 10mm Smith extractor just bite that deeply?

By the way, if you run onto any more of those super-duper 9x23 ammo deals, and don't want it yourself, I'm always in the market!

 

[bad_man_ one]

38-44HD45,
The Bar-Sto is not offset,
The reason why it works the same as the 10 m.m. is because the head diameter of the 9 m.m. is only .031" smaller,
BUT,
The groove diameter is the exact same. (.347" +0/-.020)
So, the extractor seats at the same depth, just grabs .0155" less rim (1/2 the diameter).

In a Dillon 550B, when you reload these caliber's you use the same shell plate because of their similarities.

9 m.m. X 18 m.m.
9mm Luger, Parabellum (9x19.15)
.356 TSW (9x21.5)
9m.m. X 23m.m. Winchester
9x25 Dillon
.357 SIG
.38 Super
30 Luger, Mauser
10mm/.40 S&W
.41 AE

How did you use a standard 9mm Luger, Parabellum magazine, most magazines are to small to handle the COL of a 9m.m. X 23m.m. Winchester?

Regards,
BM1

Okay, but I'm a bit confused. I carry 9x23 1911-types more than any other caliber. I've converted a bunch of 9x19 and several .38 Super guns to 9x23. I LOVE 9x23 ballistics. 9x23 rim diameter is substantially smaller than that of 10mm. Is the Bar-Sto barrel offset to the right to allow sufficient extractor engagement, or does the 10mm Smith extractor just bite that deeply?

By the way, if you run onto any more of those super-duper 9x23 ammo deals, and don't want it yourself, I'm always in the market!

 

[38-44HD45]

Thanks for the info! I do not use 9x19 mags in my 9x23 guns; I use .38 Super mags with Wolff extra-power mag springs. You are correct; 9x19 mags are too short, front to back. 9x23 and .38 Super are the same length, though. Doing the conversions correctly is not too difficult, but it involves lots more than just changing barrels, springs and magazines, if one wants reliability and longevity.

And I may not have been clear: All my 9x23s are 1911-types.