12 gauge ammo advice

I have not been in a gun fight(thank God). But I have hunted many years, you get pretty excited seeing that big buck or a flock of ducks. I don't think recoil would be of concern if it was a you or them situation. Just my 2 cents.
 
I've kept #4 buck for home defense for many years, but in my apartment I imagine birdshot--#4, #2, BB--would be about as effective. Range would be very close, and any shot load would arrive almost like a solid mass.
 
I keep a 12 gauge for home protection. I load it with Remington Law Enforcement 00 buckshot. The recoil is noticeably less, and the load will still do the same job on a bad guy. l strongly recommend it.
 
Numerous tests have been done with various loads and #4 shot keeps coming up as the largest pellet size that will not over-penetrate typical interior walls.
 
Federal #1 buck FliteControl seems to be the consensus of the ballistic testing folks in terms of adequate penetration and total crush volume (tissue damage). #4 or smaller is likely to have inadequate penetration against offenders wearing heavy (such as winter) clothes. If you can get 00 or 000 buck (probably more likely than stuff like the #1, but I admit I am guessing based on stereotypes of Europe's laws and culture), it is highly likely to be successful. My shotgun is loaded with slugs, because that was the teaching of my academy, and I was taught only aimed fire. Even at close range, that dense column of shot described by other posters means you have to aim.
 
Inside the typical home, #7 1/2 1 oz trap loads are plenty effective for SD, pleasant to shoot and inexpensive.

You'll get the same fist sized hole at room distances as you'd get with #4 buckshot or 00 buckshot.

Lots of folks opine about buckshot, but have never killed anything with a shotgun nor have they shot one much.
 
I read a lengthy post by a big city Emergency Room Trauma Nurse a few years ago, who has significant experience treating all types of gunshot wounds. He has worked on multiple shotgun wounds incurred by people at close range - think room-distance. His recommendation based on his first-hand observations are to NOT use small shot sizes for home defense. He has observed multiple instances where someone was shot at across room distance with birdshot, where the shot barely penetrated the skin. While it certainly made a mess that required medical attention, the shot DID NOT penetrate to the vital organs.

While birdshot may occasionally prove immediately fatal in gunfights, I cannot personally recommend it, nor use it personally. Based on his experience, and the experience of numerous law enforcement agencies, I personally rely on #4 buckshot inside the house. I wish that I had copied the Trauma Nurse's post and saved it for future reference, but, alas, I didn't.
 
Enigma said:
I read a lengthy post by a big city Emergency Room Trauma Nurse a few years ago, who has significant experience treating all types of gunshot wounds. He has worked on multiple shotgun wounds incurred by people at close range - think room-distance. His recommendation based on his first-hand observations are to NOT use small shot sizes for home defense. He has observed multiple instances where someone was shot at across room distance with birdshot, where the shot barely penetrated the skin. While it certainly made a mess that required medical attention, the shot DID NOT penetrate to the vital organs.
While birdshot may occasionally prove immediately fatal in gunfights, I cannot personally recommend it, nor use it personally. Based on his experience, and the experience of numerous law enforcement agencies, I personally rely on #4 buckshot inside the house. I wish that I had copied the Trauma Nurse's post and saved it for future reference, but, alas, I didn't.
Click to expand...
2 possibilities here. Either you aren't remembering what was exactly said or the "trauma room nurse" was full of hooey. At normal room distances the shot pattern is not going to open up very much and will act almost like a slug in a solid pattern. Very little spread. If he actually said it barely penetrated the skin then he had not seen any shotgun wounds. He wasn't a hunter either or he would have seen the effects of shot on heavier skinned and feathered animals than a human.
Oh, I know, it was on the internet, therefore it had to be true.
 
shouldazagged said:
I've kept #4 buck for home defense for many years, but in my apartment I imagine birdshot--#4, #2, BB--would be about as effective. Range would be very close, and any shot load would arrive almost like a solid mass.
Click to expand...

This video was all I needed to see to convince me that birdshot was not an option for me. The lady takes a shot to torso and face, from inside 20 feet...and simply turns and walks away! :eek:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F_KuFzjOGA[/ame]
 
Going back up to the OP, I'll address the questions.

1. Low recoil/tactical buckshot does have both noticeably less recoil and much tighter shot patterns than standard loads. Worth the money for serious use, you'd need to expend a few to check where the patterns hit in relation to where you're aiming. At least Federal makes them in both US 00 and #1 (Posten III for 00, no equivilent for #1, Posten IV closest [US #2 buck, which I've never seen]).

2. YES, you do have to aim at typical defensive range. Shot charges in cylinder/improved cylinder barrels typically get bigger by about 1 inch/2.5 cm per yard/meter traveled. On the other hand this also makes them less than ideal should there be family members close to the target.

Finally, practice. Once you've established where your shotgun hits in reference to the sights, you can practice with whatever is readily available/cheap. There's enough similarity in recoil to not make a significant difference.

Added: if you shotgun will have interchangeable choke tubes, you may want to experiment (if you can) with how the tubes pattern the buckshot if that turns out to be your choice.

You may wish to experiment with slugs also. Shotguns may vary considerably on the relation of sight and slug placement. I've a 20 gauge double. The modified barrel shoots like a rifle, the improved cylinder barrel does too, but cross fires (shoots left) considerably.
 
oneounceload said:
What are the laws in your country regarding using deadly force to protect yourself? THAT might be a factor in what shot size to use.
Click to expand...


That is a good point. But in case the shooting is justified ist unlikely that using common shotgun ammo like buckshot would lead to any legal trouble.

@pasound yeah S&B ammo is very common here in Austria thanks for your ammo advice.

ps: Somebody mentioned going for pump action gun. That is not possible as pump action shotguns are prohibited in Austria since 1997, only semi auto shotguns are allowed. This rather weird law makes it difficult to get a well priced shotgun with good ammo capacity here in Austria, unlike in the states were you can get decent pump action guns at a good price. Semi auto shotguns are over my budget at the moment and are also connected with lots of paper work. So only a a coach gun remains. Definitely not my first choice, I would prefer getting a benelli or mossberg semi auto but with the limited budget I have stick with the coach gun for the time being.
 
Enigma said:
I read a lengthy post by a big city Emergency Room Trauma Nurse a few years ago, who has significant experience treating all types of gunshot wounds. He has worked on multiple shotgun wounds incurred by people at close range - think room-distance. His recommendation based on his first-hand observations are to NOT use small shot sizes for home defense. He has observed multiple instances where someone was shot at across room distance with birdshot, where the shot barely penetrated the skin. While it certainly made a mess that required medical attention, the shot DID NOT penetrate to the vital organs.

While birdshot may occasionally prove immediately fatal in gunfights, I cannot personally recommend it, nor use it personally. Based on his experience, and the experience of numerous law enforcement agencies, I personally rely on #4 buckshot inside the house. I wish that I had copied the Trauma Nurse's post and saved it for future reference, but, alas, I didn't.
Click to expand...

This. Birdshot has no users in law enforcement.

But having said that, birdshot can be extremely dangerous. A case I'm familiar with was a short range shooting with a 12 gauge. The ammo was low-brass #8 bird loads. The first shot caused traumatic amputation of an arm, the second was a torso hit that caused immediate incapacitation und der Tod.
 
I have used a shotgun with buckshot for many years to hunt deer and hogs here in Florida. I have some opinions on this subject, so here they are. :D

As many of you know, a deer, heart/lung shot with a large caliber center fire rifle will often run 100 yards or more.

This is ample time, were he an armed assailant, to pull a firearm and kill you dead. The only thing that will reliably end the fight instantly is a central nervous system hit- brain or spinal cord.

Ergo, in my opinion, the more chances to hit part of the CNS, the better, which is why I like the smaller buckshot sizes better.

In 3' magnum 12 ga., going from 15 pellets of 00 to 24 pellets of #1 is a significant difference in "hit chances", especially if you factor in that most guns will shoot the smaller shot size better, anyway.

You can carry this too far. I believe #1 to be the smallest size to give reliable penetration on deer sized game at hunting ranges. At self defense ranges, # 4 buck or BB's would be more than adequate.
 
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