15-22 as a home defense weapon?

[00Buck2]

12ga 870 express loaded with 00 buck is by far the best home defense/short range weapon. As long as there is enough room to level the barrel and point it at the target.

And it is cheaper to own than the S&W MP15-22.

 

[photoracer]

Maybe you can't but I can. Done it several times in training. Five rounds in under 1.5 seconds. The average shooter can't recover from 12 gauge recoil that fast.

Plenty of times in competition I have accurately fired and hit three dinner plate sized targets with a 12 ga autoloder in 1.7s. So I guarantee I can do more damage to a perp(s) than even myself with a handgun. I have done 6 in less than 1.5s with either a handgun or an AR. And if you mean ordinary field shotguns, then yes they are not that appropriate due to physical size, but if that is all you have fine.
I can teach someone to be self defense effective with a shotgun in a very short period of time, like 1 training session. Seldom have I found someone who could do that with a pistol the first time, but a few have. ARs are a whole different ballgame.

 

[Kayback]

While it may be a call for "correct tool for the job" a weapon system that requires two hands to operate and a need to possibly collect and protect children makes a pump shotgun a no go in my opinion.

A pistol is better and a rifle is much better, depending on the rifle.

There is always the possibility of you being injured in the attack which leaves unable to operate a two handed weapon system.

KBK

Don't get me wrong, I love shotguns. I'm really good with them. I enjoy shooting them in 3 gun matches. I've often competed with pumps and scored right up alongside semi auto shotguns. I just feel they are far from as good as many people say they are for self defense.

 

[Locked-N-Loaded]

I read that in case of an encounter of some sort you should shoot for the groin / family jewels area to help stop them in their tracks., I don't think any kind of bad dude wants a laser light in that area reqardless of the caliber.

From what I understand, in some states, you could go to jail for this. Why? Because the intention should be to shoot to kill, not to maim. If you only intended to hurt or maim, then the threat of death upon you was not there and thus, you should not have fired just to stop and hurt. That method could backfire on you, no pun intended. If your going to pull the trigger, pull and aim with the intentions of killing, not hurting. You would have a hard time explaining your such a crappy shot you hit him in the nuts.

 

[Kayback]

L'n'L yeah.

You are shooting to stop the attack. How the attack stops is not up to you. You may scare them away, you may wound them beyond the capability to press their attack or you may kill them. The thing is you are using a lethal level of force when you shoot them, no matter where it is on their body.Their death must be an acceptable outcome of the shooting.

But the idea behind shooting people in the groin is because the hip is theoretically a large weight bearing structure. Break it and you will remove their ability to press the attack. Some people say this is a quicker and surer way than hitting their thorax. This is not always true.

Bone doesn't always react the same way. One guy might go down like a 90 year old granny falling down stairs, another might soak up the damage and move on.

Shooting someone in the hip does not always render them unable to walk which is the idea behind it. It is also to cover up bad shooting. You'll often hear it thrown in with the "spread the damage around" crowd. This also isn't optimal. You should be able to hit what you are shooting at.

Now I'm not talking about overlapping holes at 500m, but a fist sized or smaller group at 10m rapid fire is what you should be looking for. "Spreading the damage" does not work.

Hip shots do not always work.

Center mass followed by a "failure drill" if those aren't working.

KBK

 

[b0bbymc]

And you just gave away your position to the intruder AND informed them that you are armed thus taking away any element of surprise you may have had. Now your criminal is alerted to the idea that his safety is definately at stake and your chances of survival decreased. IMO.

Agreed! I have a Taurus Judge w/ 3" PDX1 .410 loads ready for the dummy who decides to break in while im home. The Ruger is my CCW. What scares me though is if someone was to break in, find my gun, and still be in the house when I get home...

 

[Kayback]

You buy a SAFE and LOCK IT UP.

Isn't that hard really.

And seriously? a .410? Why would you use the .22 version of a shotgun? A .45 Colt round would be of more use.

 

[rraisley]

You buy a SAFE and LOCK IT UP.

Isn't that hard really.

A gun in a safe is of little or no use if you are surprised at night in bed.

And seriously? a .410? Why would you use the .22 version of a shotgun?

A .410 round can have the equivalent of three (3) .38 bullets, and is considered by some to be the ideal home defense round. Enough damage to really matter, enough spread to allow for some inaccuracy, and 12 more if the first 3 aren't enough.

 

[cryptiq]

A gun in a safe is of little or no use if you are surprised at night in bed.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that comment about the safe was a reply to "What scares me though is if someone was to break in, find my gun, and still be in the house when I get home... "

 

[Ghost_Soldier]

A safe is a MUST if you have small children running around the house like me. My daughter never has access to ANY of my firearms at any time. During the day my carry firearm is on my hip and its in the safe at night.


Back on topic, I would not use a .22lr firearm for HD under any circumstances.

 

[M Z]

I'll add this. The humble. 22LR has killed many people and critters. Don't underestimate its' killing power. While not my preferred firearm I don't discount it's capability either.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

 

[Scopes]

If they get by the alarm and the dogs, the Glock with a tactical light and laser is my preference. That is a good point about the stock giving you a little more accuracy after having been awoken from a sleep, but a pistol is easier to hide out of sight and then grab when necessary. And if you can't hit your mark with 12 shots, I don't know.

 

[MMA_FAN]

Talk about beating a dead horse.

FACT: The M&P 15-22 is better for home defense than a baseball bat or knife.

FACT: It is likely that even if you do a mag dump into the perp he may still have enough fight in him to inflict lethal injuries on you before he bleeds out from his injuries.

FACT: It is very unlikely you will get lucky enough to make a head shot, spinal shot, or jugular shot. Witch is the only places a .22lr will have a chance at stopping the attack instantly.

FACT: All other shots will just cause tissue damage and not have the penetration nor have enough kinetic energy to shock and incapacitate any of the vital organs to STOP the perp.

In short. if it is all you have then fine, use it for your defense. If you have any other firearm in a larger caliber you would be foolish not to use that instead of the .22lr.

 

[rraisley]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that comment about the safe was a reply to "What scares me though is if someone was to break in, find my gun, and still be in the house when I get home... "

No, I just feel that just as a carry gun needs to be quickly available, so does a home defense gun. And a gun locked in a safe at the other end of the house isn't going to do me much good under most circumstances. In my case, I have an M&P9C in a mattress holster, instantly accessible to me, but normally covered, my carry gun (Kahr PM9) is either on me or beside my wallet in my armoire, my Ruger LCR is always in the glove compartment of my car. My other guns are not kept loaded or locked away, but each has a loaded magazine next to it, should I need it and have the time. If someone breaks into my house and steals my guns, then I'll be unhappy, as I would be about anything stolen, and report it immediately to the police. Yes, I guess there's a chance a thief will still be in my home and use my guns against me, should he find them, but I'll take that chance, as I think it's rather small.

 

[Kayback]

I believe you should get back on facebook and leave this gun talk to the adults...

Congratulations on winning the argument by going straight to personal insults. You are a master debater.

Yeah, what cryptiq said.

What scares me though is if someone was to break in, find my gun, and still be in the house when I get home...

Put it in the safe and it will be less of a problem. If you are NOT AT HOME, then your HOME DEFENSE GUN is a little useless isn't it? And if it IS just lying around and not properly secured what you are worried about can happen. So why not, oh I don't know, take steps to prevent it happening. If you have your CCW then you can drop it in the safe after checking your house and retrieve your home defense gun. It also doesn't need to be a big safe elsewhere in the house. You get some pretty good quality rapid access safes that you can secure wherever you want your HD gun to live.

Putting it on your bedside table at night will remove the needing to get it and the chance of someone getting it before you do.

As for the .410 being the "ultimate house round", uuuh No. Not really.

Look at the pictures I posted above when 15 rounds of .36 out of a 12 gauge didn't spread to "make up for inaccuracies". The rifled barrel on a pistol will help spread the shot around I will admit, but it will still not be enough to make it a useful room broom. On the flip side to that though, it can cause you to miss your target with some of the rounds and that is not a good thing. What will those pellets hit? And if they missed they did not help in stopping the attack did they?

Yes this is a discussion about the .22 LR as a defense round, and most people have said it isn't a good option. Read the thread. While the .22 can kill people and has, relying on it is not the smartest thing in the world if you have any other option. Suggesting the .410, the smallest commercially available shotgun cartridge and the shotgun equivalent of a .22 simply because we are discussing the .22 as your argument is silly.

The soft round shot of the shotgun cartridges is not the best performing bullets in the world. Yes they can also kill, yes Wild Bill dropped a guy at 75 yards with a single .36 round ball to the chest. They still don't have the same potential as a well designed hollow point, nor will the rounds reach the stated velocity out of a short barrel, with a cylinder gap thrown in.

The excessive recoil in a handgun is not worth it IMHO. Get a better designed gun, practice with it. Get good at it and don't try use "trick" gear to compensate for not training.

KBK

Personally for my HD gun I use my daily CCW. It is a Glock 26. Also not what I'd consider the best gun for the job, but it is what I have available. -local laws and stuff-. It simply sits on my hip every waking hour, except when I'm in the shower. If it is not on my hip it is secured in a lock box on my bedside table. There is no problem with someone finding it because it is right at hand, or under my direct control all the time.

The problem of them finding my other guns is reduced because they are locked in a big assed safe. Yes they will be able to find them, getting hold of them will require the use of big power tools and lots of time. (or explosives).

KBK

 

[Kayback]

While not the most scientific these guys do some interesting stuff:
The Box of Truth and the 3" Judge.
TBOT and the 2.5" Judge

Incidentally I have not Chrono'd a .410, but looking at 60 grain rounds at <1000fps is closer to .22's levels of energy than .38's. Just saying.

KBK

 

[mcweb13]

Iam no professional shooter by any means but thanks to my local range allowing me to practice rapid fire and reload drills i feel i can proficiently put 50 rounds (coupled mags) downrage sumwhat accurately and quickly. Is this the best home defense caliber no not by anymeans will 50 rounds of cci stingers put down an intruder i think so. Unfortunatly i cant afford a higher caliber of weapon right now so this will be my option but i sleep at night knowing this cuz i have power by numbers.

 

[gdauth]

Just curious, how many of you have ever had to use your weapon against an intruder?

 

[kbm6893]

That's because the average handgun owner knows little more than how to load it and shoot it at the range. If one does not have at least some basic self-defense training, he is better off hiding under the bed.

That same person will probably be just as inept and ineffective with a 15-22 and a 50-round drum because they have NO training in shooting in high-stress situations. Spray and Pray is not a valid self-defense plan.

If one is going to use ANY firearm for self or home defense, he better get training. Either that or leave an address of the funeral home he wants the flowers sent to.

My .22s are the LAST firearm I would be using and the LAST ammo i would use in a shotgun is bird shot. I want to STOP an intruder, not make him mad.

Anybody actually SEE a wound from birdshot? It is gruesome. At indoor distance, a blast of 12 gauge birdshot will do the job. It will do MUCH more than "make him mad". On internet forums, where everybody is Jack Bauer, people think they're going to cooly dispatch the intruder. reality is different. Odds are very high you miss the target at least once. where'd that bullet go again? Into my son's room? Hope it missed him! You OWN every round you fire.

Personally, I would not use a .22 for home defense, but a 12 gauge with birdshot? I would (and do).

 

[BP_Z28]

Wow this discussion is going on longer than topics about red dots lol. Interesting nonetheless. Solid points on everyones behalf.