1866 vs 1873 lever action rifle?

[boykinlp]

If I go by looks, I prefer the case colored Winchester 73 the best. The Japanese make a quality rifle now!!
Larry

 

[67ray]

That depends on a bunch of things esp the powder. Most 38spl is designed for pistol so it is fast burning. Rifle length barrels don't add much if anything to the muzzle velocity

All but the very lightest loads will pick up around 100 to 200 fps in a rifle compared to a revolver.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Get the 1866 since it is the most aesthetically appealing to you. 38 spl, as others note above, is not a wimpy cartridge. It is a great choice for home defense, as well as plinking or target shooting.

I totally agree. Especially coming out of a rifle.

Handgun muzzle velocity is typically between 700 to 900 fps but you can get 1200 fps out of Hornady's "Critical Lite" 90-grain round. That's handguns.

Out of a 20" rifle barrel you'll probably add around 200 to 400 fps more. This isn't all that much in a general sense but if it's your home defense weapon it's plenty.

In re black powder, which you definitely only want to use for fun outside, you have to make a choice. Do you want to shoot the rifle a lot or clean the rifle a lot.

 

[cyberdemonbfg]

I have had a few lever actions, that I collected over the years. Two of them were the 66 Yellowboy (Uberti) in 44-40 and the 73 (Miroku) in .357. I didn't shoot either of them, so i can't help you there but the 66 is beautiful to look at. I sold it though along with my 5 Henry's (also nice rifles), because i don't shoot or collect anymore. I'm down to The 73 and Browning BLR takedown in .308. I may sell the 73, haven't decided yet, it's new and unfired.
The .357 shot through a rifle gives you the pleasant recoil, that you are looking for. I like the 44-40 as well but expensive to shoot(still have a 1875 Remington and Schofield in 44-40). Whichever you decide, you can't go wrong with either.

 

[oneeyedpete]

If you like the 1866 Yellowboy then get it. Even the hottest .357 rounds feel wimpy out of a rifle compared to a rifle round. That is unimportant. With the right load, a .38 special will shoot quite accurately out of a lever gun. They are all a lot of fun to shoot. If you want to squeeze the greatest accuracy out of either gun, you should get a tang peep sight. It makes the world of difference in shooting at targets.

 

[S-W4EVER]

I’ve got both Uberti’s and Winchester/Miroku’s. The latter are definitely a cut above the Uberti’s (in quality). BTW, my Winchester/Miroku 1873 .357 short rifle is one of my favorite rifles.

 

[Venom6]

That depends on a bunch of things esp the powder. Most 38spl is designed for pistol so it is fast burning. Rifle length barrels don't add much if anything to the muzzle velocity

Ballistics By The Inch shows the 125 gr. Fed. Hydrashock .38 gaining just under 300 fps. in going from a 4" to an 18" barrel. The limited comparisons I've done over the years show 200-300 fps. gain, like you say depending on the bullet and the type and weight of powder. I haven't tried it or seen it but I wouldn't be surprised if a 158 gr. full wadcutter (with its long bearing surface) over the typically light charges of Bullseye or 231 might actually be slowed down in a rifle barrel.

 

[AJ]

Have neither of the levers you mention, but a 24" Rossi 92 in .357. It fully tames recoil of .38/.357, but makes both calibers hit targets noticably faster and harder. So yes, shoots like a .22lr, but the shooting qualities are the fun part. The 24" long barrel of the Rossi is very quiet to shoot, especially the .38spl.
Got a 12ga for "kicks".

Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk

I have an older Rossi Model 92 that shoots both 38 Spl and 357 Mag flawlessly. You can even mix/alternate them in the magazine. Good way to detect flinching. On the subject of carbine barrel length affecting cartridge performance, I can give you some info that might apply. Years back, I read an NRA pub review of the then-new Marlin Camp Carbine. They found that most 45ACP loads had higher velocities in the carbine than they achieved in several pistols they tried. The results for the 9mm were the opposite, lower velocities from the carbine barrel than from the pistols they tried.

I had a Rossi 92 in 357 also. It was fun to shoot and not much recoil. Sold it when I bought my Pedersoli Colt Lightning. There are times when I think I should have kept it.

Just reread an article by John Taffin in the Jan 2020 GUNS Magazine He called the Rossi M92 the "Perfect Packing Rifle. Of course he had the action slicked up by a custom gunsmith with the trigger pull down to 4 pounds and new adjustable sights put on it.

 

[smoothshooter]

One more thing I'll add to this thread: If you do decide to go with the big bore, I'd posit a recommendation for the 44/40 over the 45 Colt.

Why? #1 it is authentic. They didn't make rifles in 45 Colt in the 19th century.

#2 the 44-40 is a superior black powder cartridge. It seals the chamber much better than 45 Colt. I've stopped shooting BP in my 45s because it is just filthy.

#3 IT WILL FORCE YOU TO GET INTO RELOADING AND YOU'LL SAVE MONEY IN THE LONG RUN!

. Let us know how you make out.

IF primers are ever available again, at less than 20 cents apiece.

 

[AJ]

IF primers are ever available again, at less than 20 cents apiece.

Got 30K on hand, think I am set for a while!

 

[Hello86]

Thank you all for you interesting answers.

 

[Hello86]

Ballistics By The Inch shows the 125 gr. Fed. Hydrashock .38 gaining just under 300 fps. in going from a 4" to an 18" barrel. The limited comparisons I've done over the years show 200-300 fps. gain, like you say depending on the bullet and the type and weight of powder. I haven't tried it or seen it but I wouldn't be surprised if a 158 gr. full wadcutter (with its long bearing surface) over the typically light charges of Bullseye or 231 might actually be slowed down in a rifle barrel.

Well if some 38 special ammunition may be slowed down by shooting from a lever action carbine, but some 38 special ammunition would gain 300 fps, that is quite much and would make a difference when it comes to home defence, right?

What 38 special ammunition would you guys recommend for and 1866 (or 1873) for home defence?

Some argue that the 357 is preferable to the 38 special when it comes to home defense, even through a longer barrel like a lever action rifle or other carbine.

I think that if the 38 special, depending on the type of ammo, through an 1866 for example, can equal the power and effect of a 9 millimeter through a pistol or 357 magnum through a revolver, and it's still too bad for home defense, then it should also mean that a pistol in 9mm or a revolver in 357 magnum is too bad and not enough power for home defense and should also be avoided, for something more powerful?

But if a pistol in 9 mm or a revolver in 357 magnum, is good or at least sufficient for home defense with enough power, then an 1866 in 38 special should also be sufficient, if it is true that through the barrel it can reach the same or similar strength and power to 9mm in a pistol or 357 magnum in a revolver?

Shouldn't that be really good? If an 1866 is as powerful as 9mm or 357 magnum through the longer barrel, it is equal in power, but plus less recoil, more accuracy through a rifle than a pistol or revolver, quick follow up shots, less noise than the 357 magnum and less blinding muzzle flash than I guess?

I'm sure there are better options for home defence, but to me it doesn't sound like a bad firearm for home defense, but rather actually a good one, or did I get that wrong?

While also at the same time good for plinking and cheap ammo, and a beautifully rifle, it (1866) seems like a good option for me I guess. 357 magnum through an 1873 can also be good, but if 38 special has about the same effect as shooting 357 magnum through a revolver, then it should do just fine, and more power is probably not needed, maybe rather excessive overkill?

 

[smithra_66]

IF primers are ever available again, at less than 20 cents apiece.

I'm finding them everywhere for about $75/1000 right now.

 

[AJ]

Well if some 38 special ammunition may be slowed down by shooting from a lever action carbine, but some 38 special ammunition would gain 300 fps, that is quite much and would make a difference when it comes to home defence, right?

What 38 special ammunition would you guys recommend for and 1866 (or 1873) for home defence?

Some argue that the 357 is preferable to the 38 special when it comes to home defense, even through a longer barrel like a lever action rifle or other carbine.

I think that if the 38 special, depending on the type of ammo, through an 1866 for example, can equal the power and effect of a 9 millimeter through a pistol or 357 magnum through a revolver, and it's still too bad for home defense, then it should also mean that a pistol in 9mm or a revolver in 357 magnum is too bad and not enough power for home defense and should also be avoided, for something more powerful?

But if a pistol in 9 mm or a revolver in 357 magnum, is good or at least sufficient for home defense with enough power, then an 1866 in 38 special should also be sufficient, if it is true that through the barrel it can reach the same or similar strength and power to 9mm in a pistol or 357 magnum in a revolver?

Shouldn't that be really good? If an 1866 is as powerful as 9mm or 357 magnum through the longer barrel, it is equal in power, but plus less recoil, more accuracy through a rifle than a pistol or revolver, quick follow up shots, less noise than the 357 magnum and less blinding muzzle flash than I guess?

I'm sure there are better options for home defence, but to me it doesn't sound like a bad firearm for home defense, but rather actually a good one, or did I get that wrong?

While also at the same time good for plinking and cheap ammo, and a beautifully rifle, it (1866) seems like a good option for me I guess. 357 magnum through an 1873 can also be good, but if 38 special has about the same effect as shooting 357 magnum through a revolver, then it should do just fine, and more power is probably not needed, maybe rather excessive overkill?

Hello86,

Any of the ammunition you have mentioned will do for home defense. However, shot placement (accuracy) is the key. Make your decision on what you want and then practice with it until you can hit your target each and every time.

AJ

 

[smithra_66]

Well if some 38 special ammunition may be slowed down by shooting from a lever action carbine, but some 38 special ammunition would gain 300 fps, that is quite much and would make a difference when it comes to home defence, right?

What 38 special ammunition would you guys recommend for and 1866 (or 1873) for home defence?

Some argue that the 357 is preferable to the 38 special when it comes to home defense, even through a longer barrel like a lever action rifle or other carbine.

I think that if the 38 special, depending on the type of ammo, through an 1866 for example, can equal the power and effect of a 9 millimeter through a pistol or 357 magnum through a revolver, and it's still too bad for home defense, then it should also mean that a pistol in 9mm or a revolver in 357 magnum is too bad and not enough power for home defense and should also be avoided, for something more powerful?

But if a pistol in 9 mm or a revolver in 357 magnum, is good or at least sufficient for home defense with enough power, then an 1866 in 38 special should also be sufficient, if it is true that through the barrel it can reach the same or similar strength and power to 9mm in a pistol or 357 magnum in a revolver?

Shouldn't that be really good? If an 1866 is as powerful as 9mm or 357 magnum through the longer barrel, it is equal in power, but plus less recoil, more accuracy through a rifle than a pistol or revolver, quick follow up shots, less noise than the 357 magnum and less blinding muzzle flash than I guess?

I'm sure there are better options for home defence, but to me it doesn't sound like a bad firearm for home defense, but rather actually a good one, or did I get that wrong?

While also at the same time good for plinking and cheap ammo, and a beautifully rifle, it (1866) seems like a good option for me I guess. 357 magnum through an 1873 can also be good, but if 38 special has about the same effect as shooting 357 magnum through a revolver, then it should do just fine, and more power is probably not needed, maybe rather excessive overkill?

Just an FYI....for a reloader especially, the 357 Mag and the 38 Spl are both MUCH more powerful than 9mm Luger.

You can load the 38 spl to 357 Mag levels....that's really all the 357 mag was...a turbo charged 38 special and they lengthened the case by 1/10th of an inch so that it wouldn't chamber in older, weaker guns.

BUT.....remember that these rifles you are looking at have the old, relatively weak Henry toggle link action. The 66 especially is weaker because it has a brass frame too. That's probably why it's only chambered in 38 Special.

The 73 has a steel frame, but I don't think I'd be too keen on firing a steady diet of full power 38 or 357 magnum-level loads out of either one.

And you don't need to! Normal 38 special pressures out of your rifle will be perfectly fine for home defense. The vast majority of ammo I'd shoot out of either one of these guns would be mid-level smokeless loads out of either the Special or Magnum brass, or a case full of black powder.

If you do that, you'll have no problems and your guns will last forever. And they will do anything you need them to do in terms of targets or self defense.

 

[Hello86]

Hello86,

Any of the ammunition you have mentioned will do for home defense. However, shot placement (accuracy) is the key. Make your decision on what you want and then practice with it until you can hit your target each and every time.

AJ

Good advice, thank you.

 

[Hello86]

Just an FYI....for a reloader especially, the 357 Mag and the 38 Spl are both MUCH more powerful than 9mm Luger.

You can load the 38 spl to 357 Mag levels....that's really all the 357 mag was...a turbo charged 38 special and they lengthened the case by 1/10th of an inch so that it wouldn't chamber in older, weaker guns.

BUT.....remember that these rifles you are looking at have the old, relatively weak Henry toggle link action. The 66 especially is weaker because it has a brass frame too. That's probably why it's only chambered in 38 Special.

The 73 has a steel frame, but I don't think I'd be too keen on firing a steady diet of full power 38 or 357 magnum-level loads out of either one.

And you don't need to! Normal 38 special pressures out of your rifle will be perfectly fine for home defense. The vast majority of ammo I'd shoot out of either one of these guns would be mid-level smokeless loads out of either the Special or Magnum brass, or a case full of black powder.

If you do that, you'll have no problems and your guns will last forever. And they will do anything you need them to do in terms of targets or self defense.

Good advice from you too, thank you.

I read that the 1866 is chambered in 38 Special, but also in 45 colt and in 40-40.

 

[smithra_66]

Good advice from you too, thank you.

I read that the 1866 is chambered in 38 Special, but also in 45 colt and in 40-40.

Yep correct. I was just meaning "only 38 spl" compared to 357 Magnum. Seems the 73 is chambered in the Magnum.

Comparing factory loads the 357 will have the most chamber pressure of all of those. The 44/40 and 45 Colt are commonly encountered in low pressure forms today, just like the 38 spl so the brass framed 66 only comes in the 38, 44, and 45, i.e. "non magnums."

Even though for a reloader they could all be "magnums."

If you were shooting these out of a 92 or a 94, you could load them however you wanted. Those guns are very strong. But the toggle link Henry guns are not, so keep them all running at non-mag levels...approximately what a casefull of black powder would generate.

 

[xfarfuldog]

If I can piggyback on this thread, which rifle for both 357 and 38. Prefer a 16" barrel for factory HP ammo. I can't imagine either caliber being a recoil problem. Strength and reliablity over beauty. Plinking and self defense. I have thousands of rounds of 38 +P but only hundreds of 357 magnum.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

If you choose to reload the .44-40 has more potential pitfalls than 38 Special/357 Magnum...

Cheers!