19-3 Unserviceable - Now What?

[ABPOS]

I was gonna say you'd think there'd be a guy in your area. Despite the fact that the factory won't fix it, I'm guessing there are many Smith and Wesson Revolver Gunsmiths out there. Since you can still get training from them, can't you?

 

[Clarke Hammer]

I opened her up this morning. I stripped it down to removing the hammer assembly and trigger assembly. I did not detect anything obviously wrong. The trigger over-travel stop was tight. There was some old dried lube in various places, so I cleaned it up and reassembled. It seems to be running smooth, but I won't know if there is a difference until I get it to the range (the trigger bind never surfaced with snap caps -- only with live ammo. We'll see.

By the way, here's a tool tip of the day: I didn't have a rebound slide spring removal tool, so I made one using a brass "loop" patch holder. I cut the tip off to make a fork and then filed it down until it fit in the slot. It worked.

 

[Doug M.]

FWIW, if I had the problem described or anything like it, and got a recommendation for a good gunsmith who had a reasonable chance of diagnosing and fixing the problem, 2-3 months would be a trivial amount of time compared to never being able to use the revolver again.

 

[Clarke Hammer]

FWIW, if I had the problem described or anything like it, and got a recommendation for a good gunsmith who had a reasonable chance of diagnosing and fixing the problem, 2-3 months would be a trivial amount of time compared to never being able to use the revolver again.

Agreed....

 

[CA Escapee]

I bought a relatively unused 696 last year. The first time out to the range I found that the cylinder would bind up on three of the charge holes. In double action the trigger would stack up and stop, in single action the hammer would stack up before reaching its full travel.

I discovered the cylinder was being pushed forward towards the forcing cone. When it got dirty the dirt on the face of the cylinder would close the gap.

I returned it to S&W for work. The first time it came back it was better, but still did it. The second time it came back the problem was fixed. I had a Master Action Package done on it on the first trip back so it was easy to tell when the cylinder scuffed the forcing cone. (easy for me to tell, S&W missed that somehow)

Is your cylinder moving forward?

Bill

 

[Clarke Hammer]

I bought a relatively unused 696 last year. The first time out to the range I found that the cylinder would bind up on three of the charge holes. In double action the trigger would stack up and stop, in single action the hammer would stack up before reaching its full travel.

I discovered the cylinder was being pushed forward towards the forcing cone. When it got dirty the dirt on the face of the cylinder would close the gap.

I returned it to S&W for work. The first time it came back it was better, but still did it. The second time it came back the problem was fixed. I had a Master Action Package done on it on the first trip back so it was easy to tell when the cylinder scuffed the forcing cone. (easy for me to tell, S&W missed that somehow)

Is your cylinder moving forward?

Bill

Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think that's the issue. As stated earlier, this gun has no forward-backward cylinder movement that is detectable by hand. Also, if the problem was built-up carbon and debris on the face of the cylinder that is closing the gap, it doesn't seem I'd be able to let the trigger reset and pull again, and then have potentially 18 good fires in a row before the next bind. If the issue was the barrel-cylinder gap getting fouled by carbon, it seems the gun would consistently not work at until cleaned. Also note that it was mentioned above that this gun came to me in nearly LNIB condition and I've only put 350 round through it. It's pretty darn clean. I'm hoping that my disassembly and cleaning old gunky lube and re-lubing today did the trick.

 

[rct269]

It seems some folks regard the fact they've never had the sideplate off as a badge of honor. I wonder why.

Back in the good old days, they told you how to take care of your revolver. That went like this-----exactly like this: "1st. Remove the screws holding the stocks in place, and take the stocks off. 2nd. Take out the four screws holding the side plate in place, using a screw driver of the correct size." They go on to tell you how to remove the side plate, to clean and oil the "mechanism", and to replace the side plate. It's perhaps noteworthy there is no mention of spray cans.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[DeafSmith]

If the 'hard bind' is only when one or two chambers go by the barrel then the ejector rod, I bet, is bent slightly.

 

[R*E]

Are the rounds all fully seated? Chambers all clean?

 

[jscott]

Many suggestions abound, many more technical than mine. However, I had a ANIB 64 no dash do the same last year when I bought it. Side plate off revealed nothing. So, tried easist solution: oiled the bejeezes out of it, reassembled, and dry fired it a zillion times. Seemed to work. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Trooper224]

I highly doubt it's beyond repair. A trip to a qualified gunsmith is in order. Honestly, you won't find one of those at Smith & Wesson.

 

[sw282]

Clarke, l think your 19 is just FINE... l believe you have an AMMO problem.

Specifically, High Primers.. l had the SAME problem recently with

a new SBH Hunter in 41 Magnum... Gun kept binding intermittently.

Finally traced the problem to HIGH PRIMERS.. There were small scratches

on the case heads.. Same ammo worked FINE in a couple 657s and

a TC Contender... Two ways to ck for high primers before chambering

a round... #1 is the fingernail test. Try feeling gap between primer and

case. Your fingernail should catch on this gap. Primer should also feel

LOWER than case rim.. Test #2.. The Glass Method.. Set the round

upright on a piece of glass, like a table top or mirror.. The case/round

should sit perfectly FLAT. No wobbling or movement side to side.. lf there

is ANY movement or instability you have a high primer... That will lock up

or bind the cylinder with the recoil shield causing it to scrape or bind..

My daughter had the same problem with a nickel Model 19-3 6'' awhile

back.. Cylinder locked up, was binding... Cause was high primers with ammo

 

[Clarke Hammer]

sw282, I appreciate the suggestion. I also initially thought it could be an ammo problem, so I intentionally ran a few different brands through it. Same malfunction with a variety of brands -- and I just checked my ammo stock on hand for high primers and all checked out okay. I disassembled the gun and cleaned the internals, replaced the rebound slide spring, and re-lubed. So far, it has preformed without malfunction for 200 snap cap trigger pulls. I won't know if it is really fixed until I get it to the range.

 

[mh51]

If the rebound slide spring has been cut or shortened (or is weak), the trigger can fail to go fully forward and not completely engage the cylinder stop for the next shot. If this happens, the cylinder stop will not retract as it should, and the cylinder will lock up until you release the trigger and allow it to go fully forward again. Either a thorough cleaning or replacing the rebound slide spring might fix the problem.
Mike

 

[one eye joe]

Well, how 'bout we start with a copy of the detailed note explaining the issue. Then let's see if we can learn about the last time the gun came completely apart (all except barrel and action studs) for a bath. Then there's the strain screw you can confirm is stock length and tight-----and that the several springs are stock.

In the meantime, count your blessings. Locking up 7-10 times out of 50 isn't so bad compared to locked up completely after I installed a Miculek spring kit (without bothering with the instructions).

Ralph Tremaine

"REAL MEN" SELDOM BOTHER TO READ INSTRUCTIONS, OR ASK FOR DIRECTIONS WHEN LOST.....

I HEARTILY ENDORSE YOUR APPROACH TO THE PROBLEM. IMHO, IF THE PROBLEM WAS DIAGNOSED AT S&W, IT CAN CERTAINLY BE DIAGNOSED ON THIS FORUM ! ! !

 

[Clarke Hammer]

If the rebound slide spring has been cut or shortened (or is weak), the trigger can fail to go fully forward and not completely engage the cylinder stop for the next shot. If this happens, the cylinder stop will not retract as it should, and the cylinder will lock up until you release the trigger and allow it to go fully forward again. Either a thorough cleaning or replacing the rebound slide spring might fix the problem.
Mike

Did you read my post directly above yours?

 

[Clarke Hammer]

"REAL MEN" SELDOM BOTHER TO READ INSTRUCTIONS, OR ASK FOR DIRECTIONS WHEN LOST.....

I HEARTILY ENDORSE YOUR APPROACH TO THE PROBLEM. IMHO, IF THE PROBLEM WAS DIAGNOSED AT S&W, IT CAN CERTAINLY BE DIAGNOSED ON THIS FORUM ! ! !

joe, the good people of this forum have put a lot more thought into my problem than S&W did. The factory didn’t even attempt to diagnose the issue. They received my gun, determined it was too old for them, and turned it around and sent back to me.

 

[oldbrownhat]

I'm putting my money on the cleaning and re-lube doing the trick. "Nearly LNIB" could also mean bought, shot a few times and then put away and ignored (!!) The fact that you found a bit of dried lube inside is a good clue. Removing the stocks and soaking overnight in mineral spirits, then flushing out, drying and a light oiling can sometimes do wonders.

Good job on making your own rebound spring tool. I did the same, using a piece of steel rod, putting a "crank" in it and cutting an appropriate slot in the end. Stuck into a "Skrooz" file handle and works like a charm.

I got a 19-4 6" a couple of years ago and although it worked mechanically just fine, it felt kind of rough. I took the side plate off and was surprised to find that the rebound slide was slightly pitted, as was the frame behind it. No actual rust, though. I set to work with w&d sandpaper & oil (a little 320, then 400 & 600) and got as much of the pitting off as I felt was prudent, then did a littie other polishing with 1200 w&d and/or green chrom. dioxide on a felt bob, flushed everything out, re-lubed and reassembled and it was quite a bit better. Later I even put trigger & hammer shims in. Still not as nice as my 14-3 but pretty good.

 

[JDinAZ]

FWIW the bolt can cause the same issue if it does not fully seat rearward when cylinder is closed. The back of the hammer catches on the back of the bolt which stops its motion

 

[growr]

So, how did this problem finally resolve?

Randy