1902 Model?

[jurban]

Looking for some help identifying this .38. It was my grandfathers and I was told he carried it when he was a volunteer policeman in a logging town in Washington State in the late 40's and early 50's.

Yoke # 1243
S/N 81307 (It matches in all three locations.)

Barrel Patent
SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS. U.S.A. PAT’D APR.9.89. MAR.27.94. MAY.21.95. JUL.16.95. AUG.4.96 DEC.22.96. OCT.4.98. OCT.8.01. DEC.17.01. SEP.2.02. JULY.7.03

.38 S. & W. SPECIAL & U.S. SERVICE CTG’S

It does not have its original grips, it has some large plastic grips on it. Any suggestions on where to find more period correct ones?

Thank you for any info you can provide.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the cotton and peanut covered plains of the Wiregrass! Some collectors will call it a Model 1902 because it has a round butt. But it technically is a Model 1905, 1st or 2nd Change. It was made around 1907. Since it has a round butt, the original grips were likely black hard rubber. However, flat top, walnut grips with no medallion were optional. eBay is a good place to look.

 

[rct269]

Yours is a Model of 1905. A dead giveaway is a Model of 1902 is a 4 screw gun (lacking the screw on the bottom of the frame in front of the trigger guard----because of an ENTIRELY different action).

As an aside, there is a school of thought (in keeping with S&W's catalogs of the times) which referred to round butt guns as 1902 Models (and square butts as 1905 Models)----never mind the action! And just to keep you wondering, I don't know just exactly when the "catalogs of the times" were---but someone will be along who does.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[glowe]

Welcome! Your revolver falls into a timeframe when lots of engineering changes were made. From 1902 to 1909, there were many names for these revolvers. The Model 1902, Model 1902, 1st Change, Model 1905, Model 1905, 1st Change, and Model 1905, 2nd Change. Your revolver would fall into the Model 1905 1st Change serial number range from 73,251 to around 120,000, made from 1905 to around 1908.

Walter Roper first came up with model names as shown in the McHenry/Roper 1945 book on S&W. As the story goes, Roper was head of the Repair Department during the first half of the 1900s and came up with a way to catalog parts in bins labeled by name/serial numbers so workmen could quickly find the right parts for their projects. The book was designed to name models by specific changes, but did not account for some.

On the other hand, the company printed catalogs almost every year in the early 1900s and used a different approach. First K frames were all round butts, but in 1905, a major configuration change was made and it was the addition of a square butt frame. The information below chronicles the names of the various models in the early years of the K frame revolver.

• 1905 to ~1911 round butts were named Military Model 1902
• 1905 to ~1911 square butts were named Military Model 1905
• ~1911 was first use of “Military & Police” and the terms Square Butt and Round Butt
• Starting ~1916 the year was dropped and the two models became the Military & Police “Round Butt” and “Square Butt”
• Late 1930s the company named these K frames as Military & Police, Round Butt and the Military & Police, Model K

Confusing, yes, but both approaches have merit. Your revolver would have likely shipped in 1906. I have pages from the 1906 catalog page and a price list below. If you download the price list and enlarge it, you can see that your revolver sold for $15. and the "Square Handle" model sold for $16.

 

[rct269]

SEE!! I told you someone would be along!

You ought to print all this out, and the next time anybody asks ANYTHING about these things, you too can blow everybody right out of the water!!

As an aside, the fellow who did it this time is known in some circles as MISTER BOX! That's because he can fix pretty much ANYTHING that's not right with a box. (He's done two for me---one was pretty much okay, not counting some weak corners, and a HUGE, HORRIBLE stain on top. It came back as strong as it was when it was new---and NO STAIN!! It was a fairly new box---only about 80 years old. The other one was a little bit older---only about 130 years old, and it was warped every place it had a place----with busted corners to boot! It came back dead square with good corners. The best part about all this is you can't tell anything's been fixed---even if you know where to look! It just looks like it's supposed to look.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[DWalt]

The different nomenclature adherents are split between the model names S&W used, and those put forth by Roper much later. I for one believe that the names that S&W actually used (which never included the various “changes”) are historically accurate. And I will personally not call a post-1915 M&P a Model of 1902 or 1905, regardless of what anyone else thinks or what some book or historical letter says, as S&W did not either. Nor were there any Model of 1905s with round butts cataloged by S&W.

 

[Alk8944]

OP asked about stocks/grips for his revolver, No one addressed this.

The S&W K-Frame round butt revolvers from 1899 clear until the 1940s were issued with either walnut or hard rubber stocks. Good reproductions of the hard rubber stocks are available from N.C. Ordnance. Either their number G-29 or G-31 fit the round K-frame guns. These are shown for the Model 1902 (G-29) or the .44 Double Action (G-31) but the only difference between them is the size of the diamond around the stock screw. I have bought these stocks for several of my own round butt K-Frames and they work well and look good. I particularly like them on my 2" M&Ps.

This is the link to the N.C. Ordnance web site; Pistol & Revolver Grips Made by NC Ordnance

 

[jurban]

OP asked about stocks/grips for his revolver, No one addressed this.

The S&W K-Frame round butt revolvers from 1899 clear until the 1940s were issued with either walnut or hard rubber stocks. Good reproductions of the hard rubber stocks are available from N.C. Ordnance. Either their number G-29 or G-31 fit the round K-frame guns. These are shown for the Model 1902 (G-29) or the .44 Double Action (G-31) but the only difference between them is the size of the diamond around the stock screw. I have bought these stocks for several of my own round butt K-Frames and they work well and look good. I particularly like them on my 2" M&Ps.

This is the link to the N.C. Ordnance web site; Pistol & Revolver Grips Made by NC Ordnance

Thank you!
I believe the current grips are Franzite target grips. I think they are ugly and detract from the gun personally.
Appreciate the link to NC Ordnance, I was looking at some on triplek.com, hard rubber reproductions.

 

[glowe]

OP asked about stocks/grips for his revolver, No one addressed this.

. . . Either their number G-29 or G-31 fit the round K-frame guns. These are shown for the Model 1902 (G-29) or the .44 Double Action (G-31) but the only difference between them is the size of the diamond around the stock screw . . . [/URL]

Just to be clear, original 44 DA stocks do not fit the K frames well with slight shape differences. Also, the front toe of the 44 DA frame has a very sharp angle, where the K frame is rounded, so the DA stocks would need to be hand fitted to the Model 1902. I would stick with the G-29. Of course, NC Ordinance may not know this and are selling K frame stocks as 44 DA as well, but tough to add material to the toe??

Wood stocks from that era are hard to find and now expensive. This is what they look like.

 

[jurban]

Wood grips that I am finding are way out of my budget. The ones that are, all have a the medallions which would not be correct.
Its likely that my gun came with the hard rubber grips and the re-pop's are within my budget fortunately.

 

[jurban]

Thank you much for this information.
I was trying to read about the model and all the changes its had over the years. Thanks for taking the time to break it down for a newbie.

 

[PALADIN85020]

Here's a shot of my paternal grandfather's well-used S&W, vintage of 1903. You can see the original hard rubber stocks clearly - they are probably the type you are looking for.

John


(Click for larger image)

 

[larryofcc]

More rubber stocks. Big Larry

 

[4K2022]

And a little more wood

Edit: I love wood, these are Square stocks
for the record

 

[4K2022]

Looking for some help identifying this .38. It was my grandfathers and I was told he carried it when he was a volunteer policeman in a logging town in Washington State in the late 40's and early 50's.

It does not have its original grips, it has some large plastic grips on it. Any suggestions on where to find more period correct ones?

Thank you for any info you can provide.

I’m sure someone HERE has a set. Post in the Want to Buy.

If if if ,,, it previously belonged to a family member. I would probably save save save $$$ and get a letter FIRST to verify the originals. And, IF the originals were Black I’d follow that direction. The condition of the replacement stocks, of any choice “should,, match the wear of the frame. IMO

My favorite SW is my next SW
buy another one

 

[4K2022]

Yours is a Model of 1905. A dead giveaway is a Model of 1902 is a 4 screw gun (lacking the screw on the bottom of the frame in front of the trigger guard----because of an ENTIRELY different action).

As an aside, there is a school of thought (in keeping with S&W's catalogs of the times) which referred to round butt guns as 1902 Models (and square butts as 1905 Models)----never mind the action! And just to keep you wondering, I don't know just exactly when the "catalogs of the times" were---but someone will be along who does.

Ralph Tremaine

A pair of Round Butt 32-20s
Two visible differences can be seen,
The solid hammer pin and the rebound slide pin.

I’m into the changes and PROUD of it, most of the time

Edit: Added barrel pics to complicate things, further

 

[Alk8944]

Just to be clear, original 44 DA stocks do not fit the K frames well with slight shape differences.

Just to be perfectly clear, I own both numerous RB K-frames from a 1902 1st change made in 1904 clear up to a couple of Model 10-5s and four Model 12 RBs, as well as a .44 DA "Frontier". I have bought NC repro stocks of both the G-29 and G-31 models. The NC Ordnance stocks fit both perfectly well with, yes, slight differences gun-to-gun! There is just as much variation, if not more, among K-frame grip frames even of the same time period than the difference between them and my .44DA! I suspect there is some variation gun-to-gun in the grip frames of .44 DAs just like the K-frames, but I only have the one. Before buying the very first set of NC Ordnance stocks I tried some of my K-frame RB stocks on my .44 DA to verify they would work before spending the money! So, don't try to tell me the .44DA and K-frame grip frames are different.