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Also could be one of Many after market parts made years and years ago. Wilson , Clark, Swenson and many other made assorted parts for 1911s.
1911 flat mainspring housing-What have I got. UPDATE
- Thread starter 4barrel
- Start date
JJEH
Member
My "know-it-all" book doesn't show any info on this MSH. Perhaps a "DIY" or made on request?!
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OP
4barrel
Member
I looked at those also and all were arched but I couldn't see the back. Thanks for the close up. That one looks like it has seen some action.Not off a 1927 Argentine...
OP
4barrel
Member
Thanks but mine is rounded-not flat. You know--A personal mark on a mainspring housing would be a way to id a gun if it were stolen and easy to do. Anyone would think it was a factory mark. Just take a photo and keep on file. Just because my name is Nancy Merritt doesn't mean I stamped it.
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may help...or add more confusion
The GI chart posted by Greyman50 looks like the chart from my old "take to every gun show & estate auction" reference book "U.S. Pistols & Revolvers 1909-1945" J.C. Harrison back in the 90's when I was actively chasing, buying and selling 1911/1911A1's.
I agree that yours doesn't quite fit any category of the basic GI MSH, but both the "23" and the "NM" were stamped before finishing as noted by lack of "angel halo" in the stamps or surrounding finish.
As Harrison notes: for BOTH the early Argentine Colt, Model of 1914, 1916 & 1919...as well as WWII 1911A1's ... major components had partial serial numbers stamped as well as frame , receiver, etc. These were US Model 1911 guns ordered directly from Colt and the finish was Colt's military brushed blue.
Also Harrison notes that the U.S. Army National Match, as produced by Springfield Armory 1954 to 1967 utilized newer model parts such as hard slides, NM barrels, adjustable sights NM Aluminum Triggers, flat mainspring housings, etc.
Your MSH may be one of these additions by Springfield Armory who would also be parkerizing after their machining work.
Who knows??.............The mystery continues
The GI chart posted by Greyman50 looks like the chart from my old "take to every gun show & estate auction" reference book "U.S. Pistols & Revolvers 1909-1945" J.C. Harrison back in the 90's when I was actively chasing, buying and selling 1911/1911A1's.
I agree that yours doesn't quite fit any category of the basic GI MSH, but both the "23" and the "NM" were stamped before finishing as noted by lack of "angel halo" in the stamps or surrounding finish.
As Harrison notes: for BOTH the early Argentine Colt, Model of 1914, 1916 & 1919...as well as WWII 1911A1's ... major components had partial serial numbers stamped as well as frame , receiver, etc. These were US Model 1911 guns ordered directly from Colt and the finish was Colt's military brushed blue.
Also Harrison notes that the U.S. Army National Match, as produced by Springfield Armory 1954 to 1967 utilized newer model parts such as hard slides, NM barrels, adjustable sights NM Aluminum Triggers, flat mainspring housings, etc.
Your MSH may be one of these additions by Springfield Armory who would also be parkerizing after their machining work.
Who knows??.............The mystery continues
OP
4barrel
Member
I LAUGHED at your first paragraph Well-cmansguns--With the <23> stamped on it -J.M. Browning's birthday-maybe it was his. Thank you a lot for that info. Interesting. I am very glad to know it was finished after the stamps. I did find a bad photo on the net of a Springfield and it kind of looks the same. It gets fuzzy when I try to blow it up. I can count the 39 down but the across blurs out. I can count 4 about half way. This may be it but the site has no info. It showed up under Springfield. One fo the sites was protected an couldn't down load a photo. You may have nailed it. You win the <Needle in a haystack> award. Thanks for the trouble. SPRINGFIELD on the left -mine on the right
Well-cmansguns--With the <23> stamped on it -J.M. Browning's birthday-maybe it was his. Thank you a lot for that info. Interesting. I am very glad to know it was finished after the stamps. I did find a bad photo on the net of a Springfield and it kind of looks the same. It gets fuzzy when I try to blow it up. I can count the 39 down but the across blurs out. I can count 4 about half way. This may be it but the site has no info. It showed up under Springfield. One fo the sites was protected an couldn't down load a photo. You may have nailed it. You win the <Needle in a haystack> award. Thanks for the trouble. SPRINGFIELD on the left -mine on the rightAttachments
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Something else perhaps of passing interest, since we are talking 1911 type pistols here..
Back in the early 1980's, I picked up a very early Llama .45 auto 1911A1 style pistol at a gunshow.
It was a smooth, well built pistol, that when compared with my Colt
.45 Gold Cup, was obviously based on the Colt pistol.
Later Llamas became very crudely made and sloppy as the company sought to sell more pistols at much lower prices by cutting corners on the machining and finishing....I later also picked up one of these guns, and had to spend about 20 minutes working it over with my jewelers fine files to knock all the sharp edges off and get it to run right.
Anyhow, this Gold Cup style Llama differed mainly from the Colt, as I remember (it's been 40 years) , in the size and configuration of the grips - the Llama grips were larger and the spacing of the grip screw holes was different. And a Colt slide wouldn't fit on the Llama frame, and vice-versa. I don't remember if the barrels were interchangable, but I'm thinking they weren't
Anyhow, I had a surprise waiting for me the first time I fired the gun - it went full, uncontollable, auto!
Upon disassembly, it was revealed that someone had done some rather stupid and destructive filing and grinding on the grip safety, hammer, sear, and disconnector. Actually, with the hammer back (and of course no magazine or ammo in it!) if you slapped the gun on the side, the hammer would drop.
A very dangerous, and very illegal situation, to say the least!
Now back then this was not a very common gun and there were no spare replacement parts to be easily had.
However, checking everything out, all the internals and small parts had the same dimensions as those of my Colt pistols, and Colt commercial, military, and aftermarket parts were available at the gunshows.
So I replaced all the moron damaged Llama parts with WW2 military 1911A1 parts, and the gun ran smooth and fine - and legal!
Now I didn't have to replace the mainspring housing on the Llama, and never checked it to see if it would interchange with a Colt or Colt spec item.
Back in the early 1980's, I picked up a very early Llama .45 auto 1911A1 style pistol at a gunshow.
It was a smooth, well built pistol, that when compared with my Colt
.45 Gold Cup, was obviously based on the Colt pistol.
Later Llamas became very crudely made and sloppy as the company sought to sell more pistols at much lower prices by cutting corners on the machining and finishing....I later also picked up one of these guns, and had to spend about 20 minutes working it over with my jewelers fine files to knock all the sharp edges off and get it to run right.
Anyhow, this Gold Cup style Llama differed mainly from the Colt, as I remember (it's been 40 years) , in the size and configuration of the grips - the Llama grips were larger and the spacing of the grip screw holes was different. And a Colt slide wouldn't fit on the Llama frame, and vice-versa. I don't remember if the barrels were interchangable, but I'm thinking they weren't
Anyhow, I had a surprise waiting for me the first time I fired the gun - it went full, uncontollable, auto!
Upon disassembly, it was revealed that someone had done some rather stupid and destructive filing and grinding on the grip safety, hammer, sear, and disconnector. Actually, with the hammer back (and of course no magazine or ammo in it!) if you slapped the gun on the side, the hammer would drop.
A very dangerous, and very illegal situation, to say the least!
Now back then this was not a very common gun and there were no spare replacement parts to be easily had.
However, checking everything out, all the internals and small parts had the same dimensions as those of my Colt pistols, and Colt commercial, military, and aftermarket parts were available at the gunshows.
So I replaced all the moron damaged Llama parts with WW2 military 1911A1 parts, and the gun ran smooth and fine - and legal!
Now I didn't have to replace the mainspring housing on the Llama, and never checked it to see if it would interchange with a Colt or Colt spec item.
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And while we are on the subject of 1911 parts -
I have a set of original WW2 military issue 1911A1 Bakelite grips in very nice condition for sale for $30 shipped if anyone needs or is interested in them.
The left one is a Colt grip and the right one is a Keystone (correct for Remington Rand and Ithaca) and there are some minute differences in the checkering and the size of the flat ring around the screw holes.
But you need to have them side by side and compare them very carefully to notice any difference. Of course, the back sides are also slightly different, as far as the markings and the shape of the 4 indents on the back, but nobody sees that when they are on a gun.
They sure would look nice on something like the Fed Ord pistol or that Argentine in the photos above.
I have a set of original WW2 military issue 1911A1 Bakelite grips in very nice condition for sale for $30 shipped if anyone needs or is interested in them.
The left one is a Colt grip and the right one is a Keystone (correct for Remington Rand and Ithaca) and there are some minute differences in the checkering and the size of the flat ring around the screw holes.
But you need to have them side by side and compare them very carefully to notice any difference. Of course, the back sides are also slightly different, as far as the markings and the shape of the 4 indents on the back, but nobody sees that when they are on a gun.
They sure would look nice on something like the Fed Ord pistol or that Argentine in the photos above.
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