Skeetr57
Member
I don't know what the situation is today, but back when I was doing gunsmithing from 1982-96, the extractor was not listed by S&W as an available repair part, only as a factory fitted part.
1950 Model 45 Target - Found in Tucson
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jglsprings
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I realize this is a Zombie thread, but you never see revolvers like this any more. What a find it would be today!
Hope it still has a great home.
Hope it still has a great home.
If I read the original post correctly the extractor was as made and fitted at the factory.
What a very cool revolver. It brings all sort of ideas to mind and I really appreciate you sharing this with us and Congratulations on a fantastic addition to your collection. Really looking forward to the range report.
You have a fascinating one-of-a-kind revolver.
Actually the frame lug does not have to be modified to add an extra 45 Colt cyl. It's done by turning a narrow cut around the perimeter of the Colt cyl rear face which allows it to be used with the existing 45 ACP frame lug.
Your custom extractor for the 45 Colt appears to be held together with the pre war style spanner nut as used on the 1917.
Have you lettered your extremely unique factory dual cartridge converted revolver? That would be interesting.
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StrawHat
Member
Going through my saved threads and found this one. I have not a lot of interest in the 45 long Colt but this method of conversion is very interesting.
Dave, can you tell if the chambers were deepened to accept the long Colt cartridge or was all of the conversion in the extractor?
Thank you.
Kevin
Save your cases.
The internet provides the evidence for what you said.
Unless someone is still using old balloon head cases of course.
Edit. Almost forgot. The .45 Colt is the one on the left, the other is a .44 Magnum.
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45Wheelgun
Member
The chambers had to be deepened in order to accept the 45LC cartridge.
I'm going to get this one out and fondle it a bit. It is still one of the most interesting guns I own.
Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
StrawHat
Member
So, the ACP must be clipped to fire. AR works okay? And long Colt also works unclipped.
It is still a fascinating work around.
More photos please, if the urge strikes you.
Have you ever had it to the range?
Kevin
StrawHat
Member
My thanks to StrawHat for reviving an interesting thread that started before I arrived here.
You are welcome.
It had been on my mind for a while to dig this thread up again. I searched for modified 1917s and got nowhere. Finally went through all of my saved threads one by one.
It was worth it!
Kevin
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pantannojack
US Veteran
Your photo work is truly educational. as for two extractors, I am not sufficiently skilled to swap one for another with out bending something, and causing a wobble seen while spinning freely with cylinder open. In a Jerry Miculek video I saw he recommended using alignment tools to straighten such every time I would do so.
tenntex32
Member
It was the bulk of full moon clips alright, but not for carrying that did them in:
The 'half-moon' clip evolved from a 'full-moon' clip design originally invented by S&W for rimmed cartridges in their 'Top Break' #3 revolvers in the latter part of the 19th century as a form of what we know today as a 'speed loader'.
The original intended use was never put into production however. Probably because Smith didn't have much luck obtaining Army contracts for their revolver. A good idea languished for 30 years or so until the "The .45 Hand Ejector U.S. - Model 1917" was designed to chamber the 45 ACP rimless round. Why then did Smith & Wesson invent and patent the half-moon clip?
Very simple as it turns out; the military correctly concluded that pre-loaded half-moon clips could be packaged much more efficiently than pre-loaded full-moon clips. Which Smith, at the request of the Army allowed Colt to also use free of charge. Alas, the full-moon clip was once again relegated to the back burner of firearms ingenuity. Only in the more recent past, after 100 + years since its invention, has the currently popular full-moon clip finally gained its full due.
The half-moon clip was patented in 1918 (application filed August 15, 1917) by Joseph H. Wesson, one of Daniel B. Wesson's sons, who also designed a machine to load them. He also designed various full-moon clips and even a quick loading carrier for 24 cartridges.
Factory racks of 1/2 moon clips prior to being loaded:
Jim, do you have a clear pic of the label on the back of the halfmoonclip feeder stick?
One of my favorite "M1917" pics I have accumulated...........I do need to get around to building one of these devices for myself.
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StrawHat
Member
I have the photo of the loading machine also. Never even thought about building one!
Kevin
Kevin
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The wood strips are feeders for the machine that loaded them with ammo?
It is pictured in James V. Howe's book on gunsmithing.
I'm sorry I don't have a better photo of label. When I zoom in on it as near as I can tell it reads:
1st line - ???45 Caliber (then reference to it being a clip holder)
2nd line - Manufactured by
3rd line - SMITH and WESSON
4th line - (appears to be an address ending in Springfield, MASS.
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tenntex32
Member
Just a WAG on my part, thus why I was wondering what the label said. (You did state "Factory racks of 1/2 moon clips prior to being loaded" in your post and my assumption is they were loaded by a device like the one in my pic.)
The do look to be about the right length for it. Who knows, maybe the halfmoonclips were somehow transferred to a permanent halfmoonclip holding bar on the machine, but I feel it would be far simpler and faster to remove an empty halfmoonclip holder and then shove a fully loaded halfmoonclip holder into the machine for ammo loading.
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It appears to be the right hand upright in the photo only longer:
IIRC, they were also shipped to the army unloaded on these longer racks. Otherwise why else would they have the S&W label on them?
IIRC, they were also shipped to the army unloaded on these longer racks. Otherwise why else would they have the S&W label on them?
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Ed Fowler
Member
I shoot 50 rounds through my 625-6 every morning, weather permitting, it has three letters CDZ infront of the serial No. It is fairly accurate using acp brass, but when using Starline AR brass it is outstanding, one of my most accurate revolvers. It has only shot lead 180 grain SWC, most accurate using 4.4 grains of 700X so far.
tenntex32
Member
A very good observation/question.
I will require one or two originals, fully charged with halfmoonclips, for further "study" of course.
Dave, you still have this! That's great. It is an innovative and well thought out piece of engineering. It is unique. One great reason to be in the S&WCA. If you go to the annual meetings, you get to see things like this in real life.
Burt
Since I'm such an old fart and have stores of Unique powder, my very accurate load for my 1917 and '50 Target remains: 6.6 grs Uniq w/200 gr SWC in Remington AR cases. Fed and CCI primers.
handejector
Staff member
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HEY DAVE!!!!Time to spring my trap-
Put $200 in small bills in a paper sack, and drop it in the alley behind Rosa's cantina in El Paso, or you'll never see the gun again.
Better yet, bring it inside- I'm in the last corner booth (they got Wifi now) waitng for Feleena to dance.
I'm still waitin on that $200. Still at Rosa's. They won't let me leave till I pay my tab.
Come git me!
Bring all the cash you can. The back door is nailed shut, but bring a claw hammer and see if you can pull the nails holdin it shut- but be quiet doin it. Bring that 45 in case it gets dicey.
HURRY!
Doug M.
Member
If someone wanted to recreate such a neat revolver, I'd bet a bunch that member BMCM could do it. He's mostly in the semi-auto forum discussing 3rd gens and the work he's done on his or others.
HEY DAVE!!!!
Bring that 45 in case it gets dicey.
HURRY!
LOL.
Soooo... You want him to bring it in .45 Colt or .45 ACP?
I hope Faleena was worth it.
Ed Fowler
Member
Hopefully this is a good place to ask: Has anyone ever been able to match their best accuracy with one of the 45 acp revolvers comparing it against shooting a 45 Long Colt with its best load?
handejector
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I want him to bring it loaded.LOL.
Soooo... You want him to bring it in .45 Colt or .45 ACP?
I hope Faleena was worth it.
Feleena is holdin up OK, but she don't twirl as fast as she used to. Her walker slows 'er down some.
Green Frog
Member
HEY DAVE!!!!
I'm still waitin on that $200. Still at Rosa's. They won't let me leave till I pay my tab.
Come git me!
Bring all the cash you can. The back door is nailed shut, but bring a claw hammer and see if you can pull the nails holdin it shut- but be quiet doin it. Bring that 45 in case it gets dicey.
HURRY!
With proper apologies to the late Warren Zevon...
" I went home with a waitress, the way I always do,
how was I to know, she was with the Russians too...
Send lawyers, guns and money, the S*** has hit the fan!"
Froggie
StrawHat
Member
In S&W revolvers I have a few ACP revolvers and only one chambered for the long Colt cartridge. I have not been able to get the long Colt (Model 25-5) to equal the accuracy of the ACP revolvers.
I also have a dual cylinder Italian SAA. The ACP cylinder is permanently installed. Not really sure where the long Colt one is, to be honest.
Kevin
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