1993 617-1 with some 617-2 & 617-3 features

[LiteCav]

Gentlemen,

I just acquired a 617-1 (.22 SS K frame), that appears to have some 617-2, & 617-3 features.

61-1, (1993):

Six shot, .22 cylinder
All SS
4” barrel, full tang
S.N. CBS51XX
M.N. 617-...........................this was introduced in 1998 (617-3)
S&W Hogue rubber grips
K frame round butt frame...this was introduced in 1996 (617-2)

In the Standard Catalogue of Smith & Wesson, it says:

617-1 (1993): Change rear sight leaf, drill & tap frame, change extractor,
synthetic grips introduced.

617-2 (1996): Introduction of 10 shot alloy cylinder version; 10-shot glass beaded
SS frame with alloy cylinder, in SS K round butt K frame.

61-3 (1998): Change frame design to eliminate cylinder stop; eliminate serrated tang
change to MIM trigger, change internal lock-work for the 6 shot SS version.

My 617-1, still has the cylinder stop, and serrated tang, but

How can it have 617-2 features, like the round SS frame? and,
617-3 features, like a MIM trigger and hammer, (at least they look to me to
be MIM parts. I had a 66-5 that had MIM part, and these parts look very similar.
They are dark and uneven in color).

Can anyone shed some light on this small mystery?

Thank you, all. Andre

 

[s&wchad]

My 617-1 has a CCS prefix, a round butt, an MIM trigger (hollowed out on the back) and a forged hammer. It came with the S&W branded Hogue grips shown in the box. The first digit of the Spec Ord code on the label is an "8", which I interpret as a 1998 ship date.

The -2 was a 10 shot and the -3 had the new style frame with an integral cylinder stop, rather than an installed stud. Apparently, they continued to produce the 6 shot after the 10 shot was introduced.

 

[murphydog]

Photos of the hammer, trigger and grip frame would be helpful here. The parts could have been replaced (or given a bad case-hardening), and the SB frame given the RB treatment.

 

[LiteCav]

Thanks you all, for your replies.

s&wchad,
How can you tell that your hammer is forged? My trigger, although darker and more motley than stainless steel, is not hollow. I have the same grips. It appears that we have the almost the same 617-1, except for the trigger.
So two questions: 1) How can I tell if my hammer is forged or MIM, and 2) why would your trigger be hollow and mine not?
Andre

 

[s&wchad]

Your gun has a CBS prefix and mine has a CCS, so I'll assume mine was made after yours. I believe the change to MIM triggers happened sometime in 1997, before the hammers were changed over. I don't have a K frame with an MIM hammer to look at, but the J frames I have show a visible seam running down the back below the spur.

 

[Stu1205]

I have a 617-1 6" all stainless 6 shot.
It has a forged hammer and trigger. No MIM parts on it.
It came with Hogue S&W branded grips, but under is a round butt frame.
The serial number on mine is CAE11XX, which puts it around 1996.
Some of these might be transitional models because the SCS&W says that this one should be a square butt.
Oh well....go figure.

Stu

 

[LiteCav]

Chad, from the information you sent my way, I got a thorough education on Forged & MIM hammers! Thank you.

I also realize now, that I need to learn how to “look for information" in the Forum before posting a question.

From what I’ve learned, both our 617-1s have Forged hammers, in fact it seems that all 617-1s have Forged hammers, and same "late" 617-1s received MIM Triggers.

According to one of the posters, S&W did not replace Forged Hammers with MIM ones, until model 617-2 & -3, when they changed some innards & frames to accept MIM shapes.

Stu, thanks for your input.
other than barrel size, it seems that our 617-1s, are similar in all respects. Mine also has the round butt which was not supposed to appear until 617-2 or -3. (This can be somewhat remedied by replacing the black rubber grips with elegant wood ones that convert round butts into square ones!)

I jumped to conclusions that my Hammer & Trigger were MIM parts, because they did not look polished & bright as I would expect a Forging to look. But some of the photos show Forged Hammers with great discolorations and dark purple hot spots.
They were simply not plished, as they should have been!

Andre

Strength & Honnor

 

[murphydog]

The forged case-hardened or colored parts look very similar to finished MIM parts because the latter are also case-hardened. The clues for the MIM parts are the hollow back sides as you noted, and the colors are less vivid.

 

[LiteCav]

Alan said:
The forged case-hardened or colored parts look very similar to finished MIM parts because the latter are also case-hardened. The clues for the MIM parts are the hollow back sides as you noted, and the colors are less vivid.


Thanks Alan, So that explains the similar colors for MIM and Forged parts!
Also, Forged Hammers seem to have a portrusion on the striker plate, (there’s a proper word for that I’m sure!).

I wonder if the Forged parts can be polished?

Andre

 

[5Wire]

This is a 617-2 with a stainless steel cylinder. The stainless steel cylinder is attributed to the 617-3.

• 617-2 (1996): Introduction of the 10-shot alloy cylinder version; 10-shot glass-beaded stainless steel frame with alloy cylinder.

• 617-3 (1998): Change in frame design to eliminate cylinder stop stud; eliminate serrated tang; change to MIM trigger; change internal lockwork for the 6-shot stainless steel version.

Supica, Jim; Nahas, Richard (2006-12-20). Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson 3rd (Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson) (p. 238). F+W Media, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

I think things get mixed up at transitions times.

 

[LiteCav]

Bob, I think you hit the nail on the head..”things get mixed up at transitions time”.
Chad showed us his 617-1, manufactured close to the transition to 617-2, and I think he got a MIM trigger, although MIM parts were not supposed to show up until 617-3, (according to the S&W Standard Catalog, at least). Chad, please correct me if I am wrong on this.

Andre