SiGfever
Member
I had a Kahr PM9 that the instruction manual said to Lock the Slide back, and then release the Slide Stop on a full mag to chamber a round". I paraphrase.
1st post: bought M&P Shield single stack... slide release is TIGHT
- Thread starter Frankenstein9309
- Start date
From the current online Kahr manual, page 16, Loading:
"Insert the magazine into the magazine well at the base of the grip until the magazine catch engages fully.
"Pull the slide fully to the rear and lock it back using the Slide Stop. Next push down on the Slide Stop to chamber the first round into the barrel. Do not chamber a round by pulling back on the slide and letting go of the slide. This may cause the slide to not go fully into battery."
Will someone PLEASE tell Kahr they should not be advising people to use the Stop as a release?
In truth, I have had three Kahrs and really liked them. Once broken in, you could use any method to load, including from a locked back slide, that you might use on any other gun with a slide lock. I never loaded a full mag into a gun with a closed slide, then locked back the slide, then released the slide by pushing down on the slide stop. If the slide was closed with a loaded magazine inserted, I would use the overhand retraction and release method. When done properly, it worked just fine on my Kahrs.
The point is, Kahr recognizes that pulling back on the slide can be done incorrectly causing a failure to go into battery. With a reduced friction slide stop, using it as a release on a locked back slide ensures that the recoil springs will drive the slide into battery without inference.
This is Kahr's way of preventing problems with their guns, especially when new and the recoil springs are stiff. It seems kind of silly to me, but so do parts of almost all other manufacturers' manuals, because they are written for them with minimum instruction and not for us with maximum options.
Follow only what is written in a manual and you will have reduced usefulness from your gun.
Pef
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Wow. There's a lot of thinking about the slide stop on the Shield.
From the manual: Pull the slide to the rear and release it, allowing it to carry fully forward. This strips a cartridge from the magazine and seats it in the chamber of the barrel.
FWIW, I've always used the slingshot on the Shield and I have never had a problem in over 1.2k rounds. That's about 173 magazines.... I usually slingshot to load my guns....
From the manual: Pull the slide to the rear and release it, allowing it to carry fully forward. This strips a cartridge from the magazine and seats it in the chamber of the barrel.
FWIW, I've always used the slingshot on the Shield and I have never had a problem in over 1.2k rounds. That's about 173 magazines.... I usually slingshot to load my guns....
N4KVE
Member
Kahr is owned by a religious fanatic. The MOONIES. I would never own any product they make, or trust anything they say. A Glock armorer once yelled at me when I "dropped the slide" using the lever, & showed me the "slingshot" method. It's been that way ever since. I know, the M&P's are not Glocks, but if you disassembled both side by side, you'd be amazed how similar they are. Funny Glock doesn't sue them. Wait a minute, they did, & they won. GARY.
gunny4053
US Veteran
I shook hands with Gen. Depuy, Gen. Schwarzkopf, Gen. George S. Patton, Jr., and Admiral Long. I fired the M198 155mm howitzer when it was the XM 198, before the military even bought it. I was a Drill Sgt., a firearms instructor, an Instructor at the NCO Academy, an Artillery Mechanic, a Gun crew chief, Gunnery Sgt., Chief of Firing Battery, 1SG, and Operations Sgt. In over 20 years in the Military, the breech block on a howitzer is still a breech block. According to Smith and Wesson's own manual, the pictures show and the description is still listed as a "slide stop". So unless S&W hired you to specifically to change the nomenclature of one of their parts, I'm pretty sure it's still a "slide stop". Use it as you please, but don't criticize others for calling it what S&W has identified it as.
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N4KVE
Member
Hey, I'm with you 1000%, but it's not correct to end a sentence with a preposition. GARY
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gunny4053
US Veteran
MY bad. 
"Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put." Winston Churchill [emoji39]
gunny4053
US Veteran
And we digress. 
Flyingfool
Member
That all may be... but you would have to be the Hulk or use two hands to get my shield to release. Even the range instructor who also shoots tens of thousands of rounds per year also could not work it.
So I suppose I can send this clearly malfunctioning gun back to S&W. I am sure they will modify the slide or the stop/release/lock so that it works properly.
Or will S&W send it back unchanged saying that my weapon operates exactly as designed/properly?
SoCalDep
Member
My post wasn't addressed to you but yours was to me. You may be a howitzer expert but that doesn't make you a pistol expert. S&W didn't hire me but one of (maybe the) largest Sheriff's departments in the world did, and relies on me for a fairly significant level of expertise, and I can say that relying on a manual written by lawyers not users isn't the way to best practices.
Regardless of which important person shook your hand, if you developed your howitzer knowledge solely by reading the manual then you are good at nothing but following directions... and someone who came up with those directions is much smarter than you. That said, I'm guessing you, based on your years of experience, found over time the best ways to manage that equipment, regardless of what the manual people said.
I never criticized what the part was called, so let's not create straw man arguments. I criticized those who believe there is only one way to use it.
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SoCalDep
Member
I understand your frustration. It's almost laughable that the M&P will, on one hand, take ungodly force to release the slide via the slide stop while at the same time releasing "almost" always when a mag is slammed in... almost except when it doesn't, which is generally when you really need it to do so.
This is one of the areas where the design of the M&P creates problems. I have found that repeated locking and releasing of the slide via the slide stop will eventually wear it in. My Shield is still tight enough that I release the slide with my support thumb rather than strong thumb, but after working it in it's fast and consistent.
That's one reason why I would not say the slingshot/powerstroke is a bad method. On many guns it's slower, but on some guns it's necessary, if one is a lefty it might be the best option, and if using many different guns it might be the best option.
Here's my point. I refuse to let a firearm manufacturer dictate to me how I fight to save my life. That's my decision. You do you.
Something I didn't see mentioned is the difference in the hardness between the metals of the slide stop lever and the slide.
The slide is much harder than the lever. Every time you use the lever to close the slide you are wearing away material. Eventually the tab on the lever will not fit the notch in the slide properly and will not hold the slide open.
The "eventually" will probably be a long time but, I don't want a failure if I'm defending myself.
The slide is much harder than the lever. Every time you use the lever to close the slide you are wearing away material. Eventually the tab on the lever will not fit the notch in the slide properly and will not hold the slide open.
The "eventually" will probably be a long time but, I don't want a failure if I'm defending myself.
Baloney. Prove it.
Your profile page says you were born in 1953. Patton died in 1945. So . . . . ?
handejector
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I would imagine he means Maj. Gen. George S. Patton, who commanded the Black Horse Cav in Vietnam. He was the son of George Jr.
Most people don't know the WW II general was a Jr because you seldom see it on his name.
Most people don't know the WW II general was a Jr because you seldom see it on his name.
I do. And I weren't in the Army . . .
Edit: I've shaken hands with Bush's 41 and 43, so I don't have the same confusion issue.
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Rastoff
US Veteran
No, they don't. People say this all the time, but it's a misnomer. There is nowhere that S&W says not to use the slide stop to release the slide. They recommend the slingshot method, but at no time do they try to dissuade anyone from using the slide stop to release the slide.
Yeah, you can't really wear it in either. Both metals are hard and you will never see a slide stop get worn out.
Rather than get "worn in," it's more likely the shooter is getting better at operating their gun.
gunny4053
US Veteran
Gen. George S. Patton (the son, officially listed as the IV. We referred to him as Jr, my bad) was the Commander of the 2nd Armored Division at Ft. Hood, Texas, 1977/1978. His father, Gen. George S. Patton, died in 1945.
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I know. The one who died in 1945 was the original George S. Patton, Jr, but he woulda been the III, except his dad was originally named George William Patton. Changed his middle name to match Sr.'s before the famous general was born. That's why George Jr. named your boy the IV. Then your boy changed his name after Jr. died to drop the IV. Lots of legal name changing of the middle name in this family for some reason, hence the hullaballoo . . .
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gunny4053
US Veteran
Just a little eccentric. He was a lot like his dad. Do your job, do it well, and you could do no wrong. Do your job poorly, and you'd face his wrath with a very long road to forgiveness.
Ok, I've digressed and distracted enough here. Op, good luck with your Shield and good shooting.
Ok, I've digressed and distracted enough here. Op, good luck with your Shield and good shooting.
Cheapskait
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On my Shield, the metal on the Stop where it contacted the slide was very rough and it took a tremendous amount of force to drop the slide. It took only a small bit of polishing to make it work smooth.
