.21 Sharp - new kid in town

With all the supply chain issues and inventory shortages that have plagued the firearms industry for the better part of the last decade, this is the LAST THING we need!!

I looked online and saw all kinds of primers for sale. Large and small, pistol and rifle, magnum and regular. The supply chain issues are over. Factory ammo availability is back to where they were in 2020. Its not like Vista, who owns Speer, CCI, etc. is not selling primers because they need them to load factory ammo.

Prices are up, particularly for primers, but the odds of ever seeing primers at the pre-pandemic prices are lower than the odds of finding a nice $225,000 starter house in most markets. Those days are over and are not coming back.

Even if there were still supply chain issues so few people are going to be buying the 21 Sharp it will have no measurable effect on the availability and price of primers or factory ammo. Its not like the people designing new rounds would otherwise be on the factory floor cranking out primers or building new factories.

Winchester introducing this round is not going to hurt you in any way. The price of ammo and reloading components is maddening but if someone wants a 21 Sharp rifle there is no reason to rain on their parade.
 
American RIfleman has given the coveted "Ammunition Product of the Year" award to something called a .21 sharp, a rimfire cartridge that is not a heeled bullet but fits inside of the (I am assuming) standard .22 LR. cartridge. I suspect it will go the way of the .17 Mach 2 rimfire.
Why did they make it? To sell of course. Problem of using lead free ammo in the rimfire rifle is pretty much solved with the .22 magnum-just make lead free cartridges for it-problem solved. This new cartridge will necessitate buying a whole new rifle as from what I read, the bore of a standard .22 lr. will be slightly oversized resulting in the same accuracy as shooting a .22 lr our of a .22 magnum barrel in the convertible revolvers. Can think of absolutely no reason to own one.

I guess I'll have to spell it out again. For this fat boy, deer hunting .30-06. Why? because I got one, it goes boom when you pull the trigger and the point of impact ids reasonably where I want it to be. Happened to be what I bought. I use exclusively 180 gr. If I had wanted to use 165 gr bullets, I'd a bought a .308 or a .270. Don't need the new fangled 6.5 whatever. A guy I play poker with has a tricked out AR in 6.5 something or other with a latest generation night scope that records everything and gives **** ***s if you hold it just right -the whole rig ran him between $8-9,000. He uses it to shoot hogs at night for ****s and giggles.
Duck Hunting- .20 gauge cause my shoulder is a gettin' up in years.
as far as rimfires, I'll stick with the .22 lr for the reason being I already gots a ****-load of 'em. and whatever I hit with them either dies right there or it dies when I shoot it again.
 
I am baffled why some think that the Sharp is supposed to replace and/or be better than the venerable .22LR. It is rather different tools for different jobs.

If you can hunt game in your state with either round then you have a choice. If so a .22 would likely be the economical and time-proven choice.
However in locations where it is a violation to shoot lead bullets in a hunting situation the .22LR is off the table. A .21 sharp with copper bullets would then move higher on the list of chamber options for a new rifle.
 
There is a lot to learn about the advantage of a non heal based bullet in a small rimfire. Back before the 17HMR was introduced, the "Extruder" rifles were a big hit in Australia and for those Prairie Dog hunters here in the USA that could understand the logic. A 22RF, healed based bullet was fired through a 17 or a 20 caliber barrel. The bullet "Extruded" down to that diameter and lost it's heal base. MUCH better stability in the bore with more surface area, higher pressure and better velocity. And great accuracy! Of course the fantastic 17HMR made all of this unneeded. I too thought, "Here we go again" another totally unneeded new cartridge. But the more I research it and understand it, it's a true winner! Now we need CZ, Bergara, Mossberg and Savage to offer true, heavy barrel, target/varmint rifles instead of the goofy stocked, Mattel offerings we are now offered.....
 
American RIfleman has given the coveted "Ammunition Product of the Year" award to something called a .21 sharp, a rimfire cartridge that is not a heeled bullet but fits inside of the (I am assuming) standard .22 LR. cartridge. I suspect it will go the way of the .17 Mach 2 rimfire.
Why did they make it? To sell of course. Problem of using lead free ammo in the rimfire rifle is pretty much solved with the .22 magnum-just make lead free cartridges for it-problem solved. This new cartridge will necessitate buying a whole new rifle as from what I read, the bore of a standard .22 lr. will be slightly oversized resulting in the same accuracy as shooting a .22 lr our of a .22 magnum barrel in the convertible revolvers. Can think of absolutely no reason to own one.

I guess I'll have to spell it out again. For this fat boy, deer hunting .30-06. Why? because I got one, it goes boom when you pull the trigger and the point of impact ids reasonably where I want it to be. Happened to be what I bought. I use exclusively 180 gr. If I had wanted to use 165 gr bullets, I'd a bought a .308 or a .270. Don't need the new fangled 6.5 whatever. A guy I play poker with has a tricked out AR in 6.5 something or other with a latest generation night scope that records everything and gives **** ***s if you hold it just right -the whole rig ran him between $8-9,000. He uses it to shoot hogs at night for ****s and giggles.
Duck Hunting- .20 gauge cause my shoulder is a gettin' up in years.
as far as rimfires, I'll stick with the .22 lr for the reason being I already gots a ****-load of 'em. and whatever I hit with them either dies right there or it dies when I shoot it again.
AR is just another hot air magazine.......They right what they are paid to write..........Sorta like the world's oldest profressiion. .......Predict it will be dead in 2 years and forgotten in 5.
 
I had to dig for the information to refresh my memory of another new rim fire cartridge from a decade ago. The NRA apparently has forgotten it.

What has become of the .17 Winchester Super Magnum??

".17 Winchester Super Magnum, commonly known as the .17 WSM, is a rimfire rifle cartridge developed by the ammunition company Winchester in 2012. It descended from a .27 caliber nail-gun blank cartridge by necking down the blank case to take a .17 caliber (4.5mm) bullet. Initial loadings were with a 20 grains (1.3 g) bullet, delivering muzzle velocities around 3,000-foot-per-second (910 m/s)." (Wikipedia)
It is alive and well and a dozen companies making guns for it now. Ammo is still hard to find, so most of us buy it in 500 or 1,000 lots. I ordered some today from Hinderland.

The semi auto versions have been perfected the last year or so and it now has a strong following among coyote hunters and seems to be favorite in the northern Rockies, probably because of prairie dogs and coyotes, I just read about lots of them in the predator forum. Everyone into predator hunting has one, and even some ARs fans but I am not sure why. I think it has to do with centerfire ARs being restricted in many places.


Personally, I wanted one of the stainless Rugers, but they sell them as quick as the make them and I have never found one for sale, just too much demand.

My lowly B Mag shoots under 1/2 inch groups so it will have to do until I can find a stainless Ruger or maybe until Weatherby or some higher end company picks them up. The following is slow and steady.

They truly are a 250 yard rimfire coyote gun. I threaded the barrel on mine and it is pleasure to shoot without hearing protection, sound about like a 22 short fire from a long barrel gun. No recoil and the gun does not move so you can see when your bullet hits. Great little round far ahead of it's time. I also shoot the Ruger Precision Rimfire in 22 mag and the Savage 17 HMR at distance, working on 300 yard competition, but the 17 WSM is the only one that can do that reliably. Like all bullets in the 35 and under category they are subject to wind issues beyond about 200 yards, so days without much wind are best, or just hunt the coyotes in the gullies and canyons where there is no problem.

Really glad I bought the 17 WSM and lots of ammo which should cover my lifetime. One of the smartest gun and ammo deals I have made, and I have bought maybe 100 guns in my lifetime. This one is just quiet and flat but kills well out to about 300 yards for smaller critters 50 pounds and under.

1750471215119.png
 
I am baffled why some think that the Sharp is supposed to replace and/or be better than the venerable .22LR. It is rather different tools for different jobs.

If you can hunt game in your state with either round then you have a choice. If so a .22 would likely be the economical and time-proven choice.
However in locations where it is a violation to shoot lead bullets in a hunting situation the .22LR is off the table. A .21 sharp with copper bullets would then move higher on the list of chamber options for a new rifle.
You hit the nail on the head. The 21 sharp is a marketing brilliant move. Basically all federal land designated as a flyway or any of the national wildlife refuges on water, lead has been banned for years. And the feds are even giving away lead free ammo for big game hunting at some refuges.

California has about 40 million people but only 300,000 or so hunters, that said, they are required to use lead free in most of the state. That is 300,000 rimfire shooters that have no other place to buy ammo.

For those who may not know the attempts to produce rimfire ammo in 22 long rifle simply has not gone well. I tried the little tin bullets and accuracy was worse than any I have ever seen, you need a different barrel and twist for that stuff.

Other states that have partial or all lead bans are

1. In Iowa, non-lead ammunition is required to hunt all game animals except for deer and turkey on selected public hunting areas in both northcentral and northwest Iowa.
2. The Minnesota DNR issued an emergency order in 2023 to prohibit the use of lead
ammunition during special hunts held on certain state lands

3. California which requires the use of non-lead ammunition for the taking of all wildlife with any firearm, and was fully implemented on July 1st, 2019.

4. Fish and wildlife agencies in Arizona, Oregon and Utah have adopted voluntary programs
which provide hunters with incentives to utilize non-lead ammunition or carry entrails from
harvested animals out of the field in certain areas.

5. New York and Vermont have banned the sale of lead fishing weights weighing one half ounce, or less.

6. Massachusetts’ Fisheries and Wildlife Board, Maine’s LD 958(2023), and New Hampshire’s SB 89 (2013), have all banned the use and sale of jigs and sinkers weighing one ounce or less.
---------------------------------------------------------------

These land bans for hunting and fishing on any public property will only increase. Winchester made a brilliant move to get out ahead of the crowd on this one.

We also know that since it has been nearly a year since the announcements in the NRA magazines, Guns and Ammo and other other outfits have made the announcements that testing has proven the rounds to be hotter and extremely accurate. There are U Tube reports showing the 37 grain version of that ammo well above 1,800 fps, , when compared to the 32 grain Stinger in a similar barrel, only gets about 1,450 fps, even though they are advertised at 1,600 fps. Keep in mind my 22 mag rifle with a 40 grain bullet should get about 1,950- fps, so this new round is far above the 22 lr and crowding the 22 mag.

If the other bullet weights do the same, the added cost of ammo is probably worth it. I bought one box of 100 21Sharp today for $15.44 or 15.4 cents per round. They are rated at 1,500 fps.

I bought them just to shoot in my regular 22s and measure the accuracy and velocity for myself, I do not care what the gun rags say or anyone who is selling stuff. There has been speculation that the slightly smaller bullet might do well in short handguns for the reason that they are loaded hotter in terms of velocity than typical 22s. As anyone who creates ammo knows, a slightly smaller diameter bullet allows a round to be loaded hotter and still remain at a safe chamber pressure. Some of the early self defense ammo companies used that exact process for their hottest self defense loads and many do today. For example, they may load a bullet that is .355 or 356, normal for a 9mm, they may load them in 38 Special Plus P or 357 mag cases. And in doing so get more velocity and power but the smaller diameter bullet has less resistance, and pressure levels remain safe. And because those loads are used at close distances, 25 yards or less, any accuracy issues are not of concern because they do not show up until the bullet is well away from the gun.


Hopefully I can report on that issue in a couple of weeks. And as to the new 21 Sharp round, with all the movement toward lead free hunting ammo in so many states, there is no doubt it is coming more and more on federal and state lands, so Winchester is smart to jump in and establish market share. Keep in mind that Winchester has patents on this ammo, no other company can compete with a close design for 15 years or so, so they have a bit of a monopoly in a country where lead hunting ammo will be restricted more an more each year.

I have lots of 22s of all types and I shoot many suppressed, thousand of rounds. And I will not be replacing them. But it this new round offers the performance I saw on U Tube, I might consider a gun in that caliber, just for grins.
 
Repeat - during one of the recent Ammo panics - local Sportsman Warehouse had a Stainless Left Hand Savage Laminated Thumbhole Stock Rifle in 17.
And they had those bulk ammo boxes of 17.
No 22 in sight.
And 21 was just a Bad Idea that hadn’t arrived yet!
 
As noted above and in articles, restrictions on lead projectiles was one of the driving forces behind the 21 Sharp project.

I cruised through this thread earlier and whilst running errands had a thought about needing new barrels to convert to 21 Sharp. Wouldn't be drop in but close. The vast majority of .22s (even Anschutz) have barrels that are simply round shanks fitting in a round bore in the receiver and retained by 1 or 2 cross pins. Chambers are all going to the the same, extractor slots can be generalized. So, the issue in most cases will be diameter and length of the barrel shank and keeping everything in place while the cross pin slots are drilled/milled. Heck if spacer rings were provided, only diameter would be an issue.
 
Repeat - during one of the recent Ammo panics - local Sportsman Warehouse had a Stainless Left Hand Savage Laminated Thumbhole Stock Rifle in 17.
And they had those bulk ammo boxes of 17.
No 22 in sight.
And 21 was just a Bad Idea that hadn’t arrived yet!
How do you know it is a bad idea. As pointed out, they already have 300,000 hunters in California who cannot use lead ammo and probably more than that on the federal land where it is banned. And the national and movement in many states to ban lead ammo and fishing sinkers on all public land will extend the monopoly that Winchester has now.

And, if the U Tube reports of velocity in the 1,800 plus range for the 34 grain bullets proves to be true, it will exceed the Stinger by close to 400 fps based on those chronograph results. If that holds true with other guns, that put it closer to 22 mag and 22 and gives it a massive amount of new range on things like coyotes.

And, Stingers are about $8/50 or 16 cents each. I paid 14.4 cents yesterday for them at Hinterland Outfitters so cost is not an issue if you want that additional velocity an power. And that is above and beyond what sales they will make to the guys who are forced to use something other than lead based on the state or land they hunt.

It is way to early to predict the 21 Sharp as a bad idea. Winchester is in the business of making money, they have number crunchers looking at reality and current trends. They probably have more expertise than a bunch of us old guys who are not putting millions at risk by this venture. Give them time and then we will know for sure.

I predicted my 401K would go down due to the tariffs, but I was wrong. It is the highest it has ever been and making more money that ever since the tariffs were announced and all of this deportation has been going on. Business and buying patterns are often not predictable, and certainly do not follow old guy logic.

At this stage, it is more logical that it will sell big than it will fail, but it cannot fail because too many people are already locked into lead free ammo where they hunt.
 
I don't want one.....EVER,,,,,Bad idea,,,,,,,,,Still predict it will be DEAD in 5 years or less.....They could have made the case larger and the bullet .22 cal.. Then all ya would need it a reamer..........In time will end up like the 5mm Remington..........Rifles out there and NO ammo.
 
Personally it doesn't excite me, but to each their own. It'll find a niche market, and hang on, barely. I know guys that still shoot the 5mm, when they can find ammo.
 
"As pointed out, they already have 300,000 hunters in California who cannot use lead ammo"

So, because ca has those restriction, the rest of the country has to get ready for the same thing, is that what you are saying? If the "poor" ca hunters don't like it, well too bad. Deal with it or move.

I, unfortunately live in "ca lite" otherwise known a co. In some ways co is even worse than ca, in regard to shooting sports. But in spite of that I sure as hell don't wish the crap on the rest of the nation that we have here just so everyone is dealing with the same restrictions whether truly applicable to a given situation or not, ei: the non-toxic shot BS.

If I could I would be out of here in a heartbeat but given my age and a couple of other things, I'll probably die here so I live with the garbage unless it doesn't suit me then I do something else that does suit me.

Of those 300,00 hunters you mention, are they ALL RF hunters or does that include CF also? If it includes all hunters, what percentage of RF hunters, hunt enough to actually make a supposed difference, environmentally?

All this stupid new cartridge is pave the way for liberal governments to impose more restriction on us. Before this it could have been argued that there was no practical option for "lead free" RF projectiles but now, every liberal jerkwad legislature will be all over the place passing more restrictive ammunition use laws.
 

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