21st Century cops.

[Kiwi cop]

Admin Edit:
I deleted 26/50 posts.
The topic is changes in being a cop.
If you can discuss that without going into politics, racial issues, your toilet habits, and plumbing history, have at it.


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original post-





For as long as I can recall (1992) the offical qualification target for N Z Police has been a life-sized photograph of one of the tactical firearms trainers wearing a balaclava and carrying a sawn off shotgun with scoring zones superimposed. The passs rate is 80% of shots fired as hits within the incapacitation areas, roughly the centre of mass.

About a month ago I attended my annual tactical options certification training (empty hand, handcuffs, ASP batton, O/C Spray, taser and firearms practical malfunction drills). During the day we were told that the qualification target is to be changed to a plain white with a black silhouette and scoring zones.

The reason for this change? New (millennial) graduates at the police college are objecting at shooting a real gun at the photograph of a human being!

This comes on the heels of a number of stories of recent graduates refusing to carry out supervisors instructions. This includes standing on a cordon, conducting searches at "unpleasant" sites such as rubbish tips, and even refusing to get out of a vehicle at an urgent call (domestic) until backup arrives because their tactical assessment says that it is unsafe to respond.

Now my instruction group was made up of experienced street cops, and when we heard about the change of targets we fell over laughing. If someone is refusing to shoot at a photograph of a human what will they do when they are confronted by the real thing?

Personally I am surprised the department response was to replace the photo with a silhouette. Several years ago there was a political furore over the humanoid IPSC targets which had to be changed to a, roughly, diamond shape with the same size scoring zones but no B (head) zone.

I wonder how long before we will be shooting at the B 17 target or similar with an actual score to qualify?

 

[Ματθιας]

Political correctness will be the death of western civilization/culture.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

So are these issues related to excessive "sensitivity training" or is there a union in place that prevents any disciplinary action for junior employees refusing to comply with supervisors' instructions?

 

[Faulkner]

Maybe we need to see LEO training targets with more pronounced arms and legs so that we can practice to just wing 'em.

 

[Frank46]

Range I once belonged to banned the use of any target showing bank robbers with pistols pointed at the heads of hostages, and pictured targets showing the human form and charging soldier targets. Frank

 

[OMCHamlin]

As soon as things truly go south, like during ww2 or the Cold War, all this fake PC culture will disappear real quick.

Either that, or we'll lose. As it stands now, this "fake PC culture" is getting more and more real and institutionalized, and I'd give us no better than a 60/40 chance at snapping out of it in time to win a real hardship war. And by that, I mean a war that could actually impact the USA, not something fought entirely off shore.

 

[Old cop]

Having survived three deadly confrontations in my 30 years I find this VERY troublesome. If these new officers are reluctant to shoot at a human photo target they might hesitate on the street and get themselves or someone else killed. The streets are tough and unforgiving, I’m surprised that upper management is caving into them.

 

[keith44spl]

Them youngin's needs a dose of simunitions training with a couple of ol troopers.


Gees...................kids these days.






.

 

[Tom Kent]

I have been retired for the past thirteen years so I am sure that some things have changed since I left. However, a few years before I retired I served a few years as one of our firearms instructors. During a period of annual firearms qualification I was the shotgun instructor. I told my classes that a womans greater body mass was below the waist so the women shooters should use their legs to help deal with recoil. I told the male shooters that their greater body mass was above the waist and that they should use their arms and shoulders to help mitigate recoil. This seemed to work and everyone (almost?) was happy. After a couple of weeks I was called into the office of our civilian, no law enforcement experience or training, director. She ordered me to shut the office door and then told me that there was absolutely NO difference in men and women and I would stop creating this false difference in my instruction methods. What a dull life she must have lead.

 

[tlawler]

The reason for this change? New (millennial) graduates at the police college are objecting at shooting a real gun at the photograph of a human being!

This comes on the heels of a number of stories of recent graduates refusing to carry out supervisors instructions. This includes standing on a cordon, conducting searches at "unpleasant" sites such as rubbish tips, and even refusing to get out of a vehicle at an urgent call (domestic) until [backup arrives because their tactical assessment says that it is unsafe to respond.

Geeze...what a bunch of namby pambys, as William Shatner would say. It’s the internet I say! How else would your millennials learn to become as lazy as Our millennials?

 

[Wise_A]

The reason for this change? New (millennial) graduates at the police college are objecting at shooting a real gun at the photograph of a human being!

This comes on the heels of a number of stories of recent graduates refusing to carry out supervisors instructions. This includes standing on a cordon, conducting searches at "unpleasant" sites such as rubbish tips, and even refusing to get out of a vehicle at an urgent call (domestic) until backup arrives because their tactical assessment says that it is unsafe to respond.

You guys want, I can come over.

• Enjoys standing around, especially when it's called something tactical like "cordon"
• Does not mind "rubbish tips", has lived in New Jersey
• Will drive extra slow, thus ensuring backup will have already arrived whilst conserving fuel and avoiding vehicle damage

 

[Kiwi cop]

When silhouette targets were black, civil rights activists complained that the targets conditioned police officers to more quickly use guns against African Americans. I don't know if any such conditioning existed but I would give them the benefit of doubt and use racially neutral targets.

An awful lot of police officers have lately been wounded or killed on domestic disturbance calls. I feel that the tactics used on these calls needs to be revamped to try to reduce police casualties. I too would hesitate to barge into a domestic situation without backup.

Domestics and mentally ill persons are some of the highest risk calls a cop can get.

It’s amazing the number of abused spouses who live their abuser so much that they will attack someone coming to their aid.

The last mentally ill person, threatening to hang himself, I attended I drew the taser and had the camera recording as I walked down the driveway. Fortunately it wasn’t needed.

12 months ago in tactical training we were presented with a domestic scenario. I said take a Glock in due to the nature of the unknown factors. Others, including supervisors dismissed my comments. During the debrief the trainers mphasised the option of taking a firearm into the dwelling.

 

[BigBoy99]

I think I have solve the problem! A new will be passed requiring all criminals to wear shirts which will have a round bull-eye target on them. Then the new office will be shooting a target they are familiar with.

 

[snowman]

After a couple of weeks I was called into the office of our civilian, no law enforcement experience or training, director. She ordered me to shut the office door and then told me that there was absolutely NO difference in men and women and I would stop creating this false difference in my instruction methods.

Sir,

I'm interested in how you responded, both to her nonsensical assertion and to her demand. Had it been me, I might have invited her to visit the nearest clothing store to try on the men's stuff and see how she liked the fit.

Regards,
Andy

 

[Lt JL]

All is not lost. My old PD has had 5 OIS so far this year: 2 by old timers and three by the kids we are talking about in this thread. They came through in the clutch. Good training, and a short rein their first year turns lots of the Millennials into good cops. They have better tools, they are better educated than most of us were, have fewer prejudices, and are less likely to see force as an acceptable first response.

I remember when we changed to a qual target of a bad guy pointing a gun. Scores went down, because so many people shot at the gun and not the guy.

 

[Philadelphia Patriot]

Our qualification targets look fairly close to this...

 

[Kiwi cop]

All is not lost. My old PD has had 5 OIS so far this year: 2 by old timers and three by the kids we are talking about in this thread. They came through in the clutch. Good training, and a short rein their first year turns lots of the Millennials into good cops. They have better tools, they are better educated than most of us were, have fewer prejudices, and are less likely to see force as an acceptable first response.

I remember when we changed to a qual target of a bad guy pointing a gun. Scores went down, because so many people shot at the gun and not the guy.

I think you have just reinforced my point. 60% of your shootings are by those I am concerned about, yet you say as a group millennials are less likely to use force? In most cases millennials have some difficulty with face to face communications due to livimg their lives on social media.

And if scores dropped when going to a “gun toting” target because shooters were aiming for the weapon, a natural response, what happens on the street when, not used to shooting at a target carrying a weapon, a cop is confronted by such?

The answer is obvious. Without the training in ignoring the weapon and aiming at stopping the offender they will shoot at the weapon. This results in missing the offender and in dangers to the public.

True story. One of the “new generation” cops was assigned an enquiry file where they had to interview as a suspect someone with extensive previous history. The cop planned a full raid with the full group (sergeant plus 6) with the addition of dog handlers and others.

The sergeant was asked to approve the operation and his dirstbreaponse was to ask if an attempt had been made to speak to the suspect at all. He was told it was considered too dangerous after an initial assessment.

The sergeant put the young cop in his car, drove to the address and knocked on the door which was answered by the suspect who then invited both cops in, offered them a cup of coffee before sitting down and giving a statement.

 

[Wise_A]

Question, because I iz not a cop and don't even play one on TV.

If you're being presented with that "bad guy with a gun pointed" target, isn't the correct response to move and get to cover? I mean, shooting him is great and all, but not getting shot is even better.

 

[Lt JL]

KiwiCop, those were all good shoots by anyone's standards, including your's or mine. I think they do better de-escalating things like domestics and disorderlys than the last couple generations of cops. They can talk, and fight, mostly the old guys fought, and then talked. They will be fine once they learn they won't get a ribbon for participation the first time they get into a bar fight and get their butts handed to them.
That target I referenced was from back in the 1990's, sorry if I was unclear.
I'm long off the streets you are still on, but I started raising police officers well over two generations ago, and we were saying the same things then that you are saying now. I guess the long view is we get the young candidates we deserve ,because they mirror the greater society, and it's up to good academies and FTOs to make cops out of them

 

[Muley Gil]

Domestics and mentally ill persons are some of the highest risk calls a cop can get.

It’s amazing the number of abused spouses who live their abuser so much that they will attack someone coming to their aid.

The last mentally ill person, threatening to hang himself, I attended I drew the taser and had the camera recording as I walked down the driveway. Fortunately it wasn’t needed.

12 months ago in tactical training we were presented with a domestic scenario. I said take a Glock in due to the nature of the unknown factors. Others, including supervisors dismissed my comments. During the debrief the trainers mphasised the option of taking a firearm into the dwelling.

Are you saying that there are times when you are NOT armed?