smoothshooter
Member
I carry a .22 LR automatic or revolver every day.
Nobody wants to get shot with anything.
Nobody wants to get shot with anything.
.22 Mag in J-Frames…What Models are There?? Would You CCW One??
- Thread starter Nalapombu
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smoothshooter
Member
Law enforcement and non-law enforcement needs are not necessarily the same.
Cops use guns to subdue suspects and protect the community.
Non-cops use guns to break off an attack so they can escape the situation.
venomballistics
Member
No ... I would not carry one.
The reasons have a few elements.
One of the largest considerations is the evaluation of the probable individual you might have to shoot.
Emotionally charged and or gacked out of his God loving mind on any manner of drugs.
You can inflict lethal wounds that might not take effect until long after he's beaten you to death with your severed arm.
If you can't kill him in a timely manner, shattered bone can go a long ways toward immobilization.
That will take a little more power than a 22 can deliver.
So, my vote is for larger caliber models
The reasons have a few elements.
One of the largest considerations is the evaluation of the probable individual you might have to shoot.
Emotionally charged and or gacked out of his God loving mind on any manner of drugs.
You can inflict lethal wounds that might not take effect until long after he's beaten you to death with your severed arm.
If you can't kill him in a timely manner, shattered bone can go a long ways toward immobilization.
That will take a little more power than a 22 can deliver.
So, my vote is for larger caliber models
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All I can do is to post my personal experience. Over the past year and a half I have shot a minimum of at least once a week. I go to the Range with 3 others who all shoot different brands and models of 22 target pistols. Two of us use CCI standard velocity, one uses Federal and the last uses Aguila. I have witnessed at least a dozen failures due to rimfire ammo design over that time and there has not been one of us who this hasn't had this happen too.
We also shoot .38 special, .45 acp, .32, .380, .25, .45 Colt, .357 magnum and a lot of 9mm as well. I have not seen one single failure of any of these centerfire rounds in the same amount of time. regardless of brand, model or shooter.
OK - while a dozen or so rounds of rimfire ammo may be a very low percentage compared to the amount we have shot, the percentage of centerfire rounds that failed has been zero.
Your life - your choice. I know what camp I'm in and why.
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I have never really thought about it, but yea...I'm thinking about it now after reading this. I've got a bad back so maybe I will take a look at one of those little lightweight, 22 LR guns.
I've got a really nice High Standard Sentinel that I like a lot. It's about the size of a K-frame, but a lot lighter. Nine shot, aluminum frame. With my old (20 years or so) bulk pack Federal ammo, it will misfire from time to time, but with CCI stingers or Mini-Mags? Never has. (I don't think I've ever had a round of CCI rimfire misfire in anything.) Trigger is heavy but manageable. It's got a 4" barrel, so it's maybe a bit large for the job, but heck, I've carried a 4" revolver at times. As a matter of fact I used to carry a Sentinel as a woods bumming gun, but that was open carry. It fits any holster made for a K-frame S&W though. A fast reload pretty much ain't going to happen, even if I could find a speedloader for it.
Would I conceal carry it? Only in a real pinch, but I might keep an eye out for one of those J-frame size 22 LR's just because. I've never had any interest in the 22 mag mostly because of the noise factor, but with Stingers...I could see it.
I've got a really nice High Standard Sentinel that I like a lot. It's about the size of a K-frame, but a lot lighter. Nine shot, aluminum frame. With my old (20 years or so) bulk pack Federal ammo, it will misfire from time to time, but with CCI stingers or Mini-Mags? Never has. (I don't think I've ever had a round of CCI rimfire misfire in anything.) Trigger is heavy but manageable. It's got a 4" barrel, so it's maybe a bit large for the job, but heck, I've carried a 4" revolver at times. As a matter of fact I used to carry a Sentinel as a woods bumming gun, but that was open carry. It fits any holster made for a K-frame S&W though. A fast reload pretty much ain't going to happen, even if I could find a speedloader for it.
Would I conceal carry it? Only in a real pinch, but I might keep an eye out for one of those J-frame size 22 LR's just because. I've never had any interest in the 22 mag mostly because of the noise factor, but with Stingers...I could see it.
Lucky Gunner wrote-up a good argument in favor of the .22 LR.
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/why-a-22-lr-pocket-gun-should-not-be-underestimated/
Sometimes the choice of a handgun depends upon the physical capabilities of the shooter. For example, my wife is not only recoil averse, but she has trouble racking the slides of semi-auto pistols because of grip strength issues with her left hand. Even EZ pistols give her trouble. Bottom line- she prefers the operational simplicity of a revolver. Our son manages several gun stores, so we were able to try out a wide variety of handguns to see what she liked best for CCW. She ended up selecting a Ruger LCR .22 Magnum, and we mounted a small LaserMax red laser. She has no trouble with trigger pull on that revolver, and she is comfortable with operating and shooting it. I will soon be changing out the front sight to a XS Glow Sight because the factory ramp sight is a little difficult to see, but otherwise that revolver has performed flawlessly. The chances of my wife ever having to actually use that handgun are remote, but I'd rather her have a .22 Magnum than nothing at all.
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You've presented a great case for the use of a revolver in .22 magnum with a laser for very specific circumstances. I agree with your choice and you and your son are to be commended for the time and efforts it took to arrive at an excellent choice.
Good job!
Model 15-4ever
Member
I've had a 351PD for about 10 years. Trigger pull was fairly heavy and I was able to lighten to an acceptable level. Have never had a misfire in over 400 rounds, goes bang every time. Good sights for a snub, weighs next to nothing. Slips into a pocket and it's easy to forget it's there, yet you still have a firearm available. Bark is noticeable, but the recoil is not.
As pointed out, the.22 Mag is no powerhouse out of a 2" barrel but it's also not a BB gun. Speer Gold Dot, which shoots well in my gun, penetrates 10-12". It's obviously a close-range in-your-face cartridge and firearm. Reality is most criminal attackers of citizens are thwarted - driven off or incapacitated - by any sort of gunshot wound, or even the display of a firearm with willingness to use it by a potential victim.
Are there hardcore gangbangers used to being shot, fanatical terrorists, psychopaths and drugged-out attackers who will continue to try and kill you regardless of being wounded, until they pass out? Of course. And what's your chances of encountering someone like that, as opposed to an opportunistic criminal who would go find someone easier to rob or assault?
Life's a bunch of calculations and choices. A little gun you have with you and can handle, is far better than no gun. Practice with it.
PS. No I don't carry mine, but if I ever got to the point a couldn't handle a more powerful handgun, I certainly would.
As pointed out, the.22 Mag is no powerhouse out of a 2" barrel but it's also not a BB gun. Speer Gold Dot, which shoots well in my gun, penetrates 10-12". It's obviously a close-range in-your-face cartridge and firearm. Reality is most criminal attackers of citizens are thwarted - driven off or incapacitated - by any sort of gunshot wound, or even the display of a firearm with willingness to use it by a potential victim.
Are there hardcore gangbangers used to being shot, fanatical terrorists, psychopaths and drugged-out attackers who will continue to try and kill you regardless of being wounded, until they pass out? Of course. And what's your chances of encountering someone like that, as opposed to an opportunistic criminal who would go find someone easier to rob or assault?
Life's a bunch of calculations and choices. A little gun you have with you and can handle, is far better than no gun. Practice with it.
PS. No I don't carry mine, but if I ever got to the point a couldn't handle a more powerful handgun, I certainly would.
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BKLooney
Member
I have used .22 lr to dispatch many a small animal, and always assumed that the little .22 lr would make someone leave you alone if it came to it, and for the most part it will.
One person I know that was shot with one is a guy named Chet, a good friend of mine, used to be a neighbor, he was a street cop for Bristol TN for years and finally moved over to be a detective, a really great guy.
He was also a firearms instructor for a local, now defunct, shooting range (Shooter’s Edge) in Piney Flatts TN.
Anyway, he fell in love with a school teacher and they eventually married. Well before he got married he wanted to teach his future bride to shoot, she’d never fired a gun before. He would take her to the shooting range and put rounds through a Ruger MKII.
One day they we re shooting as usual and a piece of hot brass went down her shirt, instantly she drops the pistol and starts tugging at her shirt to get it out, and she did. She reached the dropped pistol before he did, grabbed it with her finger inside the trigger guard, one the way up the pistol went off and shot him through the outside of his right wrist. The little 40 gr bulled went through his wrist and hit him in the chest, finally landing in one of his lungs….down he goes.
This guy is a bear, he’s probably 5’ 11” 275 and in really good shape.
He told me that when it hit him there was nothing he could do and was stunned at how quickly the floor met him! He’ll tell you today that he never thought a .22 lr would have done that to him…
It certainly won’t have that effect in all situations, hyped up attacker, drugged up attacker, or a simply determined attacker…but some number of those will hit the floor with a few rounds of .22 lr…the .22 WMR in my opinion would have to be at least a little more effective.
I told him that I knew that the first girl that shot him would be the one!
Personally I would not carry a .22 in any flavor for personal protection, but it might just be the only option for some.
One person I know that was shot with one is a guy named Chet, a good friend of mine, used to be a neighbor, he was a street cop for Bristol TN for years and finally moved over to be a detective, a really great guy.
He was also a firearms instructor for a local, now defunct, shooting range (Shooter’s Edge) in Piney Flatts TN.
Anyway, he fell in love with a school teacher and they eventually married. Well before he got married he wanted to teach his future bride to shoot, she’d never fired a gun before. He would take her to the shooting range and put rounds through a Ruger MKII.
One day they we re shooting as usual and a piece of hot brass went down her shirt, instantly she drops the pistol and starts tugging at her shirt to get it out, and she did. She reached the dropped pistol before he did, grabbed it with her finger inside the trigger guard, one the way up the pistol went off and shot him through the outside of his right wrist. The little 40 gr bulled went through his wrist and hit him in the chest, finally landing in one of his lungs….down he goes.
This guy is a bear, he’s probably 5’ 11” 275 and in really good shape.
He told me that when it hit him there was nothing he could do and was stunned at how quickly the floor met him! He’ll tell you today that he never thought a .22 lr would have done that to him…
It certainly won’t have that effect in all situations, hyped up attacker, drugged up attacker, or a simply determined attacker…but some number of those will hit the floor with a few rounds of .22 lr…the .22 WMR in my opinion would have to be at least a little more effective.
I told him that I knew that the first girl that shot him would be the one!
Personally I would not carry a .22 in any flavor for personal protection, but it might just be the only option for some.
I know that it's only a .22 but...
I trained for years with an LEO with many different kinds of weapons. The subject of stopping power often came up. He convinced me that "stopping power" meant to stop the attack, not necessarily to kill the attacker. He told me many stories about a person who was shot with a .22 who went absolutely submissive.
This, of course, doesn't mean much if an attacker is high on drugs or whatever. On the other hand, more powerful loads have often also failed to stop said attacker.
I have not had to shoot an attacker, but, under most circumstances, I would not feel at a disadvantage armed with a .22. One does know, of course, that Bobby Kennedy was killed with a .22.
I trained for years with an LEO with many different kinds of weapons. The subject of stopping power often came up. He convinced me that "stopping power" meant to stop the attack, not necessarily to kill the attacker. He told me many stories about a person who was shot with a .22 who went absolutely submissive.
This, of course, doesn't mean much if an attacker is high on drugs or whatever. On the other hand, more powerful loads have often also failed to stop said attacker.
I have not had to shoot an attacker, but, under most circumstances, I would not feel at a disadvantage armed with a .22. One does know, of course, that Bobby Kennedy was killed with a .22.
Mike-AK
Member
Not in my experience.
Lobster Picnic
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I have owned and carried the 351c for many years. I keep it stoked with Speer Gold Dots for both practice and carry. No issues of any kind. The trigger is heavy, but that makes it extra safe, in my opinion. I haven't had the need to draw in self defense but I can say it carries like a dream.
The only issue I have with rimfire is their poor performance on quickly incapacitating the threat. They are no doubt lethal, but will they stop the threat before the threat stops you? Way better than a sharp stick, but way behind any more powerful SD round (9 mm and up)
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
agree. I have a 317 with a 2 inch barrel and while less than 10 oz is no more comfortable to carry than my 337. I would feel a lot better with the 337 than an airweight J frame in 22magnum. Plus there is something nasty about that .22 magnum crack that is missing with the .38
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oneeyedpete
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IMHO, a .22 has its place as a defensive arm. It is not an ideal choice by any means, but some folks have their limitations. Many folks can't shoot a high recoil pistol or revolver with any accuracy or lack the strength to rack the slide of a pistol. These same folks can probably empty a 6-8 round .22 revolver into an attacker at 7 yards and hit them with at least 3-4 rounds. If one round is dud, it will not change anything. I usually carry a 380 auto for protection but will carry my RG Saturday Night Special Revolver in my pocket when I don't expect any danger but want something in my pocket.
I normally only carry a 22 WMR revolver on my daily walks. It's not a high threat environment, the biggest threat is large dogs that some owners feel don't need to be on a leash even though the county requires it.
I would rather have the 8 rounds of 22 WMR in my Taurus 942M revolver, than the 5 rounds of 38 in my S&W 642 when it comes to dogs.
Lots of people mention "stopping power". Unless you are Law Enforcement that is attempting to arrest someone intent on remaining free, I suspect most people attempting a robbery or assault will be successful just pulling any gun out, even without firing. Most people will retreat just at the sight of the gun, or even more likely if you fire a round. They are not going to stop and ask you if you were using a 22, or 38, or 9MM.
I do have 38's and 9MMs for home defense, but if I want to stop someone invading my house, my shotgun will be much more effective than ANY handgun.
I would rather have the 8 rounds of 22 WMR in my Taurus 942M revolver, than the 5 rounds of 38 in my S&W 642 when it comes to dogs.
Lots of people mention "stopping power". Unless you are Law Enforcement that is attempting to arrest someone intent on remaining free, I suspect most people attempting a robbery or assault will be successful just pulling any gun out, even without firing. Most people will retreat just at the sight of the gun, or even more likely if you fire a round. They are not going to stop and ask you if you were using a 22, or 38, or 9MM.
I do have 38's and 9MMs for home defense, but if I want to stop someone invading my house, my shotgun will be much more effective than ANY handgun.
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Remember though that those .22 wheel guns (like my 351PD) have a darn stiff trigger pull (and need a stout spring to pop this rimfires. My wife shoots an EZ, and I bought the 351 for her to carry here on the farm.Trigger more than she could handle (couldn’t stay on target while pulling it). Two very good/reputable gunsmiths told me they would NOT work on the trigger pull on the Smith .22’s because of reliability issues. Wound up getting momma a 642 with Apex springs. If someone cannot handle recoil of a heavier caliber be sure they can deal with the trigger pull weight of a rimfire.
