.223 55 gr. JSP for home defense?

[Borderboss]

I know the OP didn't ask for this opinion, but I'll throw it in anyway. I used to keep an AR pistol for home defense, but I got way too nervous about over-penetration and the chance for a miss to go zinging out of the house and into a neighbor's house. That's when I decided to go with a shotgun, specifically a Kel-Tec KSG with Federal Flight Control #1 Low Recoil #1 Buck.

If going with a shotgun, make sure to pattern your gun with your chosen load. My results, shown below, show the pattern to be very tight within 25 yards, more than double my typical house distance.

As to noise, I keep electronic muffs in my dresser drawer. They go on and get turned on immediately before grabbing the gun. I want both me and my hearing to survive the encounter.

 

[Hapworth]

Mine don't, but some do. If the one's you pick don't let you know where the noise is, return them.

I wasn't aware of a one that doesn't distort positional hearing unto prohibitive for a home defense situation. What are you using?

 

[NoSteponSnek]

I'm back, and I had a really satisfying range session with my carbine. I didn't witness any disintegration of the PPU JSP's so I surmise that they're GTG from a 1:7 twist barrel. To tell you the truth, I would've bought more ammo, but a B5 Bravo stock caught my eye along with a BCM Mod 3 grip. Maybe I'll stock up next time when I have more money.





I appreciate the recommendations for getting a shotgun, but it's really not in my budget at this time. That, and the missus and I have more range time behind the AR and pistols than shottys. We'd rather just stick with what we know and are familiar with. Thank you for the advice though.




I'm grateful for all the input, and I'm glad to be a part of this forum, and I look forward to hearing more opinions from you guys, whether they're asked for or not.

 

[rwsmith]

I find it interesting...

..when people bring up accuracy in HD scenarios and ranges. What is the maxiumum range of a shot inside a home, especially when using a rifle? 2 minutes of an angle at 10 yards is less than 1/4". Even a 'flyer' of 6" at 100 yards is about 3/4 of an inch at 10 yards I believe that pressure and nerves play a much bigger role in such situations. The construction and performance of the bullet is of much higher priority in HD situations than accuracy. For a 5.56/223 I'd use hollow point or fragmenting ammo indoors. Oh, and the same goes for pistols. Nerves and bullet construction trump pinpoint accuracy. At close ranges even a cylinder bore shotgun spreads about 8" at 10 yards and about 6" at 5 yards. Less likely to miss completely but you still have to shoot straight and not jerk or pull when shooting.

Oh, and I shoot 55 grain .223 bullets routinely out of my 1:7 barrel, but that's the LIGHTEST bullet I use.

And, great lord, ANY hit with a .223 rifle bullet at close range is going to be devastating regardless of bullet weight and type. Besides, the edict still holds that you DON'T have to pull the trigger only once!

 

[Alk8944]

Because of over-penetration I would not ever consider any rifle for home defense except .22 Caliber or possibly any pistol caliber. Far safer would be a shotgun with #6 or smaller bird shot, or a handgun of at least .38 Special.

 

[Doug M.]

Small shot in a shotgun is simply not reliable under bad circumstances, especially heavy clothing. UNDER penetration is more of a problem than over. The smallest one should use is #4, and I am impartial to 00/000 in buck, although the research does show that #1 has the best crush volume (but is hard to find now).

The better reason for use an AR IMHO is that if one is older/smaller or otherwise more frail for some reason, a shotgun is pretty unpleasant. I am familiar with my 590 and would find it effective, but after my injuries it is a sub-optimal choice. With the design of this house, a shot from from the area of the bedroom going down the stairs would go into the floor if I missed. Ballistic impact is only part of the matter, although obviously vital. The ability to put rounds where they need to be, followed by adequate penetration, is first. It is very easy to deliver solid hits, and repeatedly, with an AR.

I don't want to get shot with a pellet gun - but that's not the test. And, for the record, the best ways to defend a home are to make it a pain in the butt to attack/enter. If you have to shoot someone, you likely failed at the proper defensive structure.

 

[LostintheOzone]

Because of over-penetration I would not ever consider any rifle for home defense except .22 Caliber or possibly any pistol caliber. Far safer would be a shotgun with #6 or smaller bird shot, or a handgun of at least .38 Special.

Frangible .223 ammo won't over penetrate.

Here's one that was tested in gel. 13 inches if you don't want to wade through commercials and a bunch of gab.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBRXn9Nwk7I[/ame]

There are many different manufacturers of frangible .223

You definitely don't want bird shot. Very poor penetration.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Because of over-penetration I would not ever consider any rifle for home defense except .22 Caliber or possibly any pistol caliber. Far safer would be a shotgun with #6 or smaller bird shot, or a handgun of at least .38 Special.

I just have to agree with that completely.

I can't even add anything to it except to note that all my rifles are locked away and my home defense armory fits completely into the above.

 

[NoSteponSnek]

Doug raised some good points about home security and the AR being optimal for smaller statured/physically weakened individuals. I also appreciate Ozone linking the YouTube video. Funny thing, I've watched a lot of Andrew's gel tests in the past, so it was nice seeing him put that Power Strike load to the test.




My wife and I are both small statured, so it's not easy to find a rifle with a LOP or ergonomics that work for both of us. I guess that's why we were more sold on the AR platform than a shotgun. That, and it's so easy to customize. Almost like Legos, if I had to be honest.




Since you guys got me to thinking, I did a web search and came across this nifty website. Now, it's arguably not the most "scientific" test, but both 55 gr. and 64 gr. JSPs were tested and neither one penetrated the third wall of the test setup. I think that pretty much sells me on the humble soft point. Now to make sure I don't miss in the first place and practice, practice, practice!




While we're on the subject of home security, I figured I'd throw in my two cents: I feel it is as much "OPSEC" as it is hardening entry points. As a rule, I don't generally go telling a great many people (much less ones I don't know and trust) about my armaments or level of preparedness. I try to apply the Gray Man concept as much as is humanly possible. It's kept me out of life-or-death situations this long, and I hope I get to live to be a ripe old age without ever having to shoot someone in self defense.




Anyway, I want to thank all of you once again for contributing to this thread. I knew I came to the right place for getting my original question answered.

 

[WR Moore]

OK, the original point about frangible bullets is that they don't turn into harmless pixie dust when they encounter a drywall house partition. NOT that some designs can't be effective on personnel. However, it'd be more interesting to see the results of, say shooting several man weight pigs in the thorax to see how frangible deals with the ribs and sternum. There's a lot of .223 controlled expansion rounds that won't exit the body.

The hollow point on the Power Strike bullet appears larger than that of the Sierra RRLP bullet that's of similar design. The copper jacket on both is most important! Bullets made entirely of copper particles and some matrix have fragmented during the violent feed cycle of the AR carbine with seriously negative results.

Now then about stray rounds.....there is/was a website (theboxotruth) that demolished a lot of myths. One of the things they proved was that even stray small bird shot will exit one drywall partition with enough retained energy to inflict serious bodily injury or death if it didn't hit bone. Almost anything is going to do through the first wall. I'd be cautious about something that goes through 2 walls

 

[tom2]

I for one, am astounded that there is a debate about any kind of rifle cartridge going 3000 fps at close range not having enough penetration for defense against humans unless they are wearing expensive ballistic armor.

 

[Doug M.]

Oh, BTW: As a rule, one should get genuine 5.56X45 service ammo, NOT .223.Of course, that requires making sure the rifle is built and chambered to the proper standard.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

... What say you, though? Am I missing something, or perhaps being unrealistic? Are there better loads for my particular application? Please let me know, and thank you in advance.

It depends on where you live. Ranch land, log cabin, apartment or a tract home?

What is your skillset and training?

 

[NoSteponSnek]

Oh, BTW: As a rule, one should get genuine 5.56X45 service ammo, NOT .223.Of course, that requires making sure the rifle is built and chambered to the proper standard.

I agree, but some of those loads can be really difficult to obtain. Especially ones that aren't factory seconds or marked "for training only."

It depends on where you live. Ranch land, log cabin, apartment or a tract home?

What is your skillset and training?

Tract home is probably the closest thing to what I have. As for my skillset/training, I am by no means a seasoned operator, but I'm passably familiar with the platform and try to practice at the range as well as with my mounted weaponlight whenever possible.

 

[Bald1]

We're talking about ACTIVE electronic ear protection. You can hear ambient noise but they protect your hearing from impulse noise like gunfire.



After you suffer permanent hearing loss, you might change your opinion.


Different topic, but if anyone cares to see how interior walls handle bullets (or the other way around) it's easy--if your range allows it. Buy one 2x4x8 and a couple of 2x2 foot drywall patching pieces. Make a roughly 2x2 hollow box frame ~4 inches thick. I used drywall screws to attach the drywall. You can either put down some plastic to catch any plaster dust or tell folks the gypsum is good for the grass (it's true).

The promo video from one of the frangible bullet ammo companies showed their ammo sawing a 6x6 in half. Typically, frangible/reduced ricochet bullets are intended to fragment on hard surfaces. NOT drywall. They're intended for use on steel targets at close range or in places where putting holes in steel piping is frowned upon (oil rigs, refineries, etc). I guess the concrete walls in many housing projects would qualify.

Yes I know what you’re talking about. I wear electronic muffs at the range. My point is I’m not fumbling around with ear muffs in a critical situation. Just an unnecessary step.

 

[Bald1]

I didn't see any mention of frangible ammo. I think that many LE departments use it.

Fiocchi Ext a Frangible Leadless 45 gr Lead-Free Frangible 223 Ammo | Palmetto State Armory

Personally I'm not using an AR inside without a can. Way too loud. It's your hearing though, not mine.

Again, this sounds silly. My hearing is not my main concern if someone wants to kill me or a loved one….. Seay belts might break my ribs but I still wear it. Air bags might break my nose but I still want them.