30-40 Krag brass
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Nemo288
Member
I might have 4 or 5 left over from the days when we cut them off and stuffed 44 bullets in them.
I will PM you if I can find them. You are welcome to them.
The older cartridges are getting harder to find it's true.
I managed to score some 6mm Rem a few weeks back.
Remington has quit making the 444 and who knows what other brass.
Hornady makes those but charges double. Ta heck with that!
Pistoleros aren't the only brass scroungers nowadays.
I will PM you if I can find them. You are welcome to them.
The older cartridges are getting harder to find it's true.
I managed to score some 6mm Rem a few weeks back.
Remington has quit making the 444 and who knows what other brass.
Hornady makes those but charges double. Ta heck with that!
Pistoleros aren't the only brass scroungers nowadays.
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ageingstudent
Member
Looks like you can make it out of .303 British if you can't find any 30-40.
Targets Guy
US Veteran
Keep me in mind. I've got 30 rounds yet to fire. I can send the brass to you if you'd like. I shoot about 10 rounds a year as I never know when I will find a box at a gunshow.
Nemo288
Member
That's because the 30-40 is an almost direct rip-off of the 303.
About the only major thing they changed was the bullet diameter.
The 30-40 is the round that gave us the ubiquitous .308 bullet.
The military has a thing about being incompatible with anyone else.
I have cut off 303's and put 44 bullets in them too.
The bases in front of the rim look a slight bit smaller than the 30-40 but only in the 1-2 thousandths range (by eye).
http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/206.pdf
makes it .0023" difference at the base.
MJFlores
Member
The local gun shops here sell it right on the shelf...both Remington and FedI think I saw too. I'd buy a few boxes so you have brass to load after you shoot the factory stuff. That's just what I do for my 32 Winchester Special.
303Brit will reform to make usable 30-40Krag. They will be a little short,,.100" or so.
Just a slight push back of the 303 shoulder is necessary along with the neck resize to get the 303 brass to chamber in the Krag.
You could probably accomplish the task in a 308, 300sav or similar FL sizer die adj'd accordingly.
The much narrower shoulder dia and taper of the 303 will fireform on the first firing in the Krag chamber to fill out and you sometimes loose a bit of length here too. That depends on the brass you're using.
The base dia difference, usually a .001 or 2, doesn't usually come into play. But avoid any brass that has a spec much over that.
The case being short in the chamber, I personally avoid hot loads w/ jacketed bullets. Just my thought to save the chamber mouth and throat lead from flame cutting where it's exposed by the shortened case. Maybe it's all folly, but I generally shoot light cast bullet loads anyway.
Scrub the chamber clean of the carbon deposits as if shooting 38sp in a 357 when done anyway.
Sad to see 30-40 brass shoved off onto the obsolete list. Get it where and when you can. Load it kindly and neck size it there after and it'll last a long time.
Just a slight push back of the 303 shoulder is necessary along with the neck resize to get the 303 brass to chamber in the Krag.
You could probably accomplish the task in a 308, 300sav or similar FL sizer die adj'd accordingly.
The much narrower shoulder dia and taper of the 303 will fireform on the first firing in the Krag chamber to fill out and you sometimes loose a bit of length here too. That depends on the brass you're using.
The base dia difference, usually a .001 or 2, doesn't usually come into play. But avoid any brass that has a spec much over that.
The case being short in the chamber, I personally avoid hot loads w/ jacketed bullets. Just my thought to save the chamber mouth and throat lead from flame cutting where it's exposed by the shortened case. Maybe it's all folly, but I generally shoot light cast bullet loads anyway.
Scrub the chamber clean of the carbon deposits as if shooting 38sp in a 357 when done anyway.
Sad to see 30-40 brass shoved off onto the obsolete list. Get it where and when you can. Load it kindly and neck size it there after and it'll last a long time.
DWalt
Member
"The 30-40 is the round that gave us the ubiquitous .308 bullet."
Actually, that was the 7.5 Swiss.
As above, the .30-40 case can be easily formed from .303 British brass, but the neck will be somewhat shorter than standard. But it will work. I have formed many of them, from back in the days when I had a .30-40 M1895 Winchester.
Actually, that was the 7.5 Swiss.
As above, the .30-40 case can be easily formed from .303 British brass, but the neck will be somewhat shorter than standard. But it will work. I have formed many of them, from back in the days when I had a .30-40 M1895 Winchester.
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Nemo288
Member
Did not know that!
Then I will amend my statement to:
The 30-40 was the round that introduced the .308 to the USA military and civilians.
Been extremely popular ever since.
To the OP:
Also be on the lookout for "30USA" brass.
That was the US Army's version of the 30-40 and it's a bit heavier.
I picked up some at a gun show once.
Unfortunately for youse all, I cut those off too.
There is a possibility this brass is now over 100 years old.
After annealing it works fine.
The loads contain several grains less powder than any of the other brass.
If you ever do see this brass do NOT use loading data for the commercial brass as the case capacity is somewhat less.
Here's what the headstamps look like and the case weights (after being cut off):
Attachments
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DWalt
Member
When the US Army decided to go with a more modern smokeless powder cartridge and rifle, they first looked at what was happening in Europe. In 1890, the U. S. Military attache in Paris obtained various samples of European cartridges for study, including the Swiss Rubin (7.5 Swiss), and sent them to Frankford Arsenal (which was at the time making no ammunition similar to what was desired) for evaluation. Frankford was very taken by the Swiss design using a .309" jacketed bullet, and decided to use it as a model. Cartridge development began in mid-1900 using European smokeless powder, as nothing suitable for rifle use was being made in the US at that time. The first production lot of late 1900 revealed that the case neck and shoulder were too thin, causing crumpling during loading. To overcome that problem, the brass was thickened in those areas, and in order to keep external dimensions the same, the bullet diameter was decreased to .306" The first bullets had copper jackets, round noses, and a weight of 240 grains. Many other evolutionary changes to the .30-40 cartridge were made over a period of several years, including increasing the bullet diameter to .308" and decreasing the weight to 220 grains. In late 1895, one significant change involved increasing the thickness of the case drawing blank to make a stronger solid base (it had been a semi-balloon head up to that time), to address case rupture events experienced in the field. That is the reason that the post-1895 cases are heavier than the early ones.
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Keep me in mind. I've got 30 rounds yet to fire. I can send the brass to you if you'd like. I shoot about 10 rounds a year as I never know when I will find a box at a gunshow.
Oh I couldn't take someting as hard to find from someone else who uses it. Anyway I came across another box today. Granted it's a bit old, marked $3.70, Remington Kleanbore Ammunition in a red and green box. Ups my count to 3 boxes.
Alk8944
US Veteran
Actually, no. The original 7.5 x55 SR used a .305" diameter paper patched lead bullet from 1889 when first introduced until adoption of the 1911 cartridge that did use a .308 jacketed bullet. While I won't stick out my neck and say the .30-40 was the first cartridge using a .308 bullet, it did pre-date use of this diameter in the 7.5x55 SR by some 18 tears! It is the cartridge that gave us the pretty much standard twist rate for .30 caliber rifles of 10" however.
Last year I bought a couple thousand rds of 30US. Was in 03
type bandoleers. Head stamp is F A 1 07. As you can see from
Pic ammo is clean, that's the good news. Bad news, you can
put your thumb against bullet, apply pressure and neck will
splitt. Inspecting powder was a greasy wad. I was aware off this
when I bought it. Over 50% of ammo was in this condition. The
rds. that didn't crack were no good either. There were squibs
mis fires, hang fires,ect. Ended up just pulling bullets and salvaging bullets, trashing the brass.
type bandoleers. Head stamp is F A 1 07. As you can see from
Pic ammo is clean, that's the good news. Bad news, you can
put your thumb against bullet, apply pressure and neck will
splitt. Inspecting powder was a greasy wad. I was aware off this
when I bought it. Over 50% of ammo was in this condition. The
rds. that didn't crack were no good either. There were squibs
mis fires, hang fires,ect. Ended up just pulling bullets and salvaging bullets, trashing the brass.
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Nemo288
Member
Some brass, depending on the alloy and conditions, will age harden.
109 years is a long time.
Annealing may have saved some of those.
Trashing the powder and primers was a good idea.
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I have not decided whether this was faulty ammo from get- go
or did primer / powder break down and ruin the brass. There
was no brass worth fooling around annealing. This ammo was
bought through DCM in early 50s. About 20yrs ago I shot up
45/70 Govt issue from late 1800s. Black powder, every one
went off, just as day made. Fired from Trap Door. This ammo
had been stored in a fruit cake can for X?? years.
or did primer / powder break down and ruin the brass. There
was no brass worth fooling around annealing. This ammo was
bought through DCM in early 50s. About 20yrs ago I shot up
45/70 Govt issue from late 1800s. Black powder, every one
went off, just as day made. Fired from Trap Door. This ammo
had been stored in a fruit cake can for X?? years.
Nemo288
Member
True enough now that I think of it.
Probably fulminate of mercury primers.
Too bad.
30-40 is getting harder to find.
I am NOT going to be cutting any more down.
I see any I'll let ya'll know.
Probably fulminate of mercury primers.
Too bad.
30-40 is getting harder to find.
I am NOT going to be cutting any more down.
I see any I'll let ya'll know.
MJFlores
Member
Might want to jump on one of these.
30-40 brass For Sale – Buy 30-40 brass Online at GunBroker.com
30-40 brass For Sale – Buy 30-40 brass Online at GunBroker.com
Ivan the Butcher
Member
Since the 30 US round was adopted in 1898, I dought that research started on it in 1900. The 1900 research was probably for the 30-03 round. That only lasted about 3 years. Same 220 grain round nosed bullet as the 30 US (aka 30-40 Kreg)
Ivan
Ivan
Oh my,,currently at $107 for 50 cases (new). Glad I scrounged 30-40 when I did.
I'll make 'em all from the pile of 303 after that,,if I last that long.
DWalt
Member
"Probably fulminate of mercury primers."
Probably not for 1907 manufacture. By the end of the 19th century, Hg Fulminate priming was pretty much history, mainly because it had a short shelf life, especially at high storage temperatures.
Probably not for 1907 manufacture. By the end of the 19th century, Hg Fulminate priming was pretty much history, mainly because it had a short shelf life, especially at high storage temperatures.
