Point taken. And if they were fastidious after WWII, think about old school craftsmen in the first quarter of the 20th Century.
32-20 Target Model, Need the Experts!!
- Thread starter Casual Smith Nut
- Start date
I now do not think the barrel was sleeved and stamped, 32 Winchester is likely original. If one looks at the 32 Winchester serial number on the rear of the cylinder, a paradox arises. The 39XXX range shipped in 1908, the same year the 106,XXX 38 M&P guns shipped. It is very easy to remove the serial number from the barrel flat by just taking off a very small amount of metal, but I expect the factory would not have wanted to shave the rear of the cylinder, so they just stamped over the original serial number. So we have parts from a 1908 32 Winchester and from a 38 M&P that likely shipped the same year, brought together in 1921. Coincidence? What is the likelihood that the factory found a 1908 used barrel and cylinder just laying around from the same year at the 38 M&P?? If that is what happened, it could indicate that the factory service department stripped non-repairable guns and kept the parts for just this kind of repair?
OP
Agreed Gary. I was looking through the SW standard catalogue yesterday evening and also noticed the similar timeframes for the 32-20 serial 39xxx and the 38 serial 106xxx. I'll likely be sending off for letter sometime next week and will be sure to include the photos.
Question: would S&W have ever sleeved a barrel in the 20s?
Following up on Gary's post, I find this list of 32-20 serial numbers and shipping dates to be helpful.
104319 3/22/22
105214 3/14/22
106783 4/20/22
106813 8/19/24
108615 6/22/22
The serial number for the gun in question is 106704. The grip frame has a return date of 8.21, meaning August of 1921, and indicating that it went back to the factory a full 7 months before the earliest shipping date in the list. The earliest shipping date in the list is March of 1921. Because this is a return-for-service date, it was clearly originally shipped sometime earlier.
In other words, it highly unlikely that the gun, if it were originally a 32-20, was shipped anywhere near the dates in the list. Thus, all the evidence suggests that it was a 1908-ish gun, shipped as a 38 target, because the rear sight leaf is numbered to the frame.
Gary and I agree on this, and also agree that the cylinder probably came from an earlier 32-20 that was rejected at some point in its manufacture, and its cylinder returned to the spare parts bin. Not wanting to remove metal from the rear face of the cylinder, they simply over-stamped the cylinder serial number. The barrel was probably a spare from an earlier time, and either was not serial-numbered, or its original serial number was removed, and the butt serial number stamped in its place.
Regards, Mike Priwer
104319 3/22/22
105214 3/14/22
106783 4/20/22
106813 8/19/24
108615 6/22/22
The serial number for the gun in question is 106704. The grip frame has a return date of 8.21, meaning August of 1921, and indicating that it went back to the factory a full 7 months before the earliest shipping date in the list. The earliest shipping date in the list is March of 1921. Because this is a return-for-service date, it was clearly originally shipped sometime earlier.
In other words, it highly unlikely that the gun, if it were originally a 32-20, was shipped anywhere near the dates in the list. Thus, all the evidence suggests that it was a 1908-ish gun, shipped as a 38 target, because the rear sight leaf is numbered to the frame.
Gary and I agree on this, and also agree that the cylinder probably came from an earlier 32-20 that was rejected at some point in its manufacture, and its cylinder returned to the spare parts bin. Not wanting to remove metal from the rear face of the cylinder, they simply over-stamped the cylinder serial number. The barrel was probably a spare from an earlier time, and either was not serial-numbered, or its original serial number was removed, and the butt serial number stamped in its place.
Regards, Mike Priwer
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Ivan the Butcher
Member
Just to chum the waters: My 1902 4" no change 32-20 (made 1902). The barrel is roll marked "32 Winchester Ctg." on the left side of the barrel!
How about them apples?
Ivan
How about them apples?
Ivan
From the Model 1899 well into the Model 1905s the caliber was on the left side of the barrel. I have a 32 with caliber on the left side, serial number 47,XXX. The next serial number up from that one is a 32 W.C.F. stamped on the right with serial number 85,XXX. Those numbers are represent a timeframe from 1910 to 1919 and is the best I can do with my serial numbers in hand.
Gary
I show several in the 50000 range that still have 32 Win on the barrel. The highest one is 59043 and that one shipped in December, 1913.
The highest one I've recorded with WCF is 110915 and it shipped in August, 1924, but 11014 has 32-20 CTG on the barrel. No ship date for that one.
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