.35 Collins wildcat

[LittleAugieMo]

I've used my goggle-foo but no results.Anybody got anything on the .35 collins? It's based on the .35whelen to the best of my knowledge but can't find anything on it....R.E. dies dimensions m.v. thinking dies will need to be custom ordered,but will need case dimensions to do that. Thanks for any info.

 

[rockquarry]

In the days of active wildcatting some years ago, there were many, many variations of what was basically the .35 Whelen. A lot of them were created by gunsmiths. I'm pretty sure that with a large number of these wildcats there were never more than a handful of rifles that were chambered for a specific variation and some may have never made it past the one the gunsmith did while experimenting. You might contact 4D dies if they are still in business. People don't realize much of this stuff is not available on the Internet. Good luck-

 

[rockquarry]

I should have asked - do you have the rifle? If so, you could do a chamber cast with CerroSafe; I guess it's still available for Brownells. It's troublesome and messy, but it will tell you a lot.

 

[muddocktor]

rockquarry, CH/4D is still in business. But a 35 Collins must be really rare as they don't show a listing for it. I think you might have called it right in that it must have been done by some individual gunsmith and probably died out with him too.

 

[rockquarry]

rockquarry, CH/4D is still in business. But a 35 Collins must be really rare as they don't show a listing for it. I think you might have called it right in that it must have been done by some individual gunsmith and probably died out with him too.

I worked with many wildcats and Improved cartridges years ago including the then-wildcat .35 Whelen and the .35 Whelen Improved. I suspect (but haven't made an actual count) that there may have been more .35 caliber oddball chamberings based on the '-06 case than all other calibers. While there could have been an exception or two, ballistically there was little difference in any of the wildlcat or Improved chamberings if everything was loaded to approximately the same pressures.

Often they were loaded pretty hot and pressures were high but few if any were ever pressure tested. The very hot loads showed significant velocity advantages as expected, but some of these loads were likely not safe ones.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Three thoughts:

1) Huntington Dies was the Go To custom shop in the 60's, so they may have the tooling in their possession.

2) Many times the differences between one wildcat and another is only a few thousandths inch and one wildcat will fit another's chamber. If you have or can borrow a "Standard" 35 Whelen, see if it chambers.

3) many time the difference is overall, neck, or shoulder length.

Not a mention in P.O.Achley's book or Reloaders Conversion Handbook!

The chamber cast and an existing similar round are your best bets for finding what to do. It could be as simple as a rimmed variant, or I know one guy that put his name on any common round he used.

Ivan

 

[LittleAugieMo]

I should have asked - do you have the rifle? If so, you could do a chamber cast with CerroSafe; I guess it's still available for Brownells. It's troublesome and messy, but it will tell you a lot.

Yes,I have the rifle...beautiful custom carved walnut stock w/ palm swell,oak leaf&acorn carving/checkering. Also has a shilen bbl. .390 contour w/ target crown. At this pount wondering if screwing another bbl on in a more obtainable caliber wouldn't be the way to go. I think another piece of wood like this would be difficult to find and expensive to have carved.

 

[rockquarry]

Yes,I have the rifle...beautiful custom carved walnut stock w/ palm swell,oak leaf&acorn carving/checkering. Also has a shilen bbl. .390 contour w/ target crown. At this pount wondering if screwing another bbl on in a more obtainable caliber wouldn't be the way to go. I think another piece of wood like this would be difficult to find and expensive to have carved.

Dies aren't going to cheap but I haven't bought any Improved or wildcat dies in a long time. You might consider having a good gunsmith familiar with such cartridges look at it. He may be able to do something as simple as rechambering to the factory .35 Whelen cartridge. That may or may not require minor stock work.

For what it's worth (probably not much), you may have the only rifle ever chambered for the .35 Collins. Consider also, rifles chambered for these oddballs are very difficult to sell or trade. Many of the newschoolers likely don't know even know what they are.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

It occurs to me that your basic cartridge may not be a 30-06 there were wildcats on the 35 Remington case also for shorter actions.

A chamber cast will tell you so much. A parts puller may not be able to help you, but any REAL GUNSMITH will be able to help with that.

Ivan

 

[Luke Duke]

Or you could always have it rechambered. Probably be the better route. Custom dies probably cost $250 plus.

 

[Squarebutt]

Depending on the dimensions of the bolt face, it might be possible to ream the chamber and barrel out to a larger standard caliber. Something like a .375 Ruger comes to mind.

 

[6GUNSONLY]

I thought of the old .358 Norma Magnum as a possible rechambering option. Probably no factory ammo available, and would require opening up the bolt face (assuming the present round is based on the standard .30-06 head dimension). But it would be a standard clambering, likely more powerful than the current round, and dies, while not common, would not likely be custom or unobtanium.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Looking at my manuals, the 358 Norma Mag might be doable for a gunsmith, maybe,

Just looks like you will need to spend a bit of money, to get er done.
Good luck.

 

[rockquarry]

The .358 Magnum is ballistically about the same as the .375 H&H Magnum. It produces quite heavy recoil, much too much for all but expert rifleman.
Far from a practical and useful chambering for most shooters.

 

[TLflag]

RCBS dies

50 years ago I bought these dies for a single shot custom rifle I had. If you make any decisions about your caliber, these dies are available for what I paid a long time ago, $60 dollars. They are marked .35 Whelen Improved


Hope this will help Terry

 

[ReloadforFun]

Google brings up that there was a Collins Cartridge Co. in Conroe TX at one time.

 

[jag22]

To follow up, how and why did you come across this rifle? Interesting story?

 

[LittleAugieMo]

To follow up,as of now I attempted to call the Collins cartridge co. in Texas.Phone # listed on Chamber of Commerce site is "no longer active". I 'm involved w/this search do to helping a friend w/ an estate. Gentleman that owned the rifle was more of a "shotgun" guy,but had some rifles also. Obviously bought this one for the wood. Lol

 

[Skeet 028]

Call Huntingdon Die Specialties. They may have info on the cartridge...even if you have to pay a bit for a search. Unless It is a well known Wildcat...it really won't sell well...unless it is on a custom well known stock maker's chunk of wood. I've had a fewcustom rifles and even then the standard calibers sell better by far. I did have a custom rifle made by Ackley in 257 AI that sold well...but I got more for a Rem 722 B grade in 257 Roberts...quite a bit more. Find the basic ase it was made of and rechamber it...or barring that...if is made on a standard case such as 30-06 basic...have it rebarreled to a standard caliber and sell it. 35 calibers no longer sell very well anyway

 

[rockquarry]

Is Huntington still in business? They may very well be; I used to buy hard-to-find brass from them on occasion, but that's been several years.

RCBS used to custom make wildcat and Improved dies on request. All you had to do was send them three fired cases. I bought several sets. They weren't cheap, but I thought they were reasonable. They stopped this service some time ago, but I feel safe in saying they had the largest collection of oddball die specs and reamers available anywhere. Whether or not any employees currently have access to this information, I don't know, but it would be worth a call. They could likely furnish instructions on confirming the exact chambering of your rifle.

I still get excited about wildcats, but I wouldn't get involved in that aspect of handloading and load development ever again. Nevertheless, I learned a lot about handloading while working with weird cartridges.

 

[Skeet 028]

I literally wore out 3-4 barrels and almost a hundred pounds of 4831 back in the 60s before the 25-06 was a real cartridge. Just finding good loads. used that powder in everything...70 cents a pound delivered. used it in 22 Varminter Swift 243 3006 308 270 Win 300 H&H. I have 6 or 7 pounds left from the 2nd 100 pound mid 60s keg... It was a great 25-06 powder burned out two commercial 25-06s one was a 700 ADL and the other a 1st year long action 77 Ruger. Didn't even need to weigh the powder..fill her halfway up the neck and seat a 100 gr bullet...wasn't a safe ground hog inside of 400 yards in 3 counties

 

[rockquarry]

I literally wore out 3-4 barrels and almost a hundred pounds of 4831 back in the 60s before the 25-06 was a real cartridge. Just finding good loads. used that powder in everything...70 cents a pound delivered. used it in 22 Varminter Swift 243 3006 308 270 Win 300 H&H. I have 6 or 7 pounds left from the 2nd 100 pound mid 60s keg... It was a great 25-06 powder burned out two commercial 25-06s one was a 700 ADL and the other a 1st year long action 77 Ruger. Didn't even need to weigh the powder..fill her halfway up the neck and seat a 100 gr bullet...wasn't a safe ground hog inside of 400 yards in 3 counties

I also used the .25-06 in the '60s. Still have my pre-'64 Model 70 that was rebarreled to .25-06 in 1965. Lots of use and the throat shows wear, but the 26" varmint weight Douglas barrel still shoots very well. The original and cheap 4831 was what virtually everyone used, and maybe charges were a little over what you find in books these days. Many of of used the highly recommended 87 and 100 Sierra spitzers.

I bought one box of Remington ammo (90 gr., I think) after they legitimized the cartridge about 1969. Worked perfectly and could be interchanged with my wildcat ammo. That was the only factory ammo ever fired in that barrel.

 

[Nemo288]

Unfortunately Huntingtons closed their doors last month.
They were a major supplier of the Woodleigh brand bullets.
I just missed out on the last couple of boxes of their 444 bullets by being too late during the close-out.
All the double rifle folks here in the USA are weeping.

 

[Skeet 028]

Those Sierras 87 and 100 were the main bullets I used. I also made about a 90 gr with my Rock Chuck Bullet Swage press and dies. Jackets I bought from Sierra...gas checks too. I still have a couple boxes of their gas checks. 25 was as large a caliber to make with the old RCBS press and die system. I bought part of a set of 25s with the press in 1958. Bought the rest from Fred in about 1963 from parts he had. He tried to buy that press and dies from me at least 5 or 6 tmes over the years. He sold it originally in 1947. The complete sets I got were 22 and 243. Shame they went down the road. But after Buzz passed it wasn't going to continue